Surviving the Teen Years: Insights from Amy Betters-Midtvedt
About this Episode
On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, we dive into the emotional and practical aspects of parenting teens, focusing on the importance of flexibility, trust, and communication. Dr. Amy and Dr. Jody interview educator, author, and mom of 5 Amy Betters-Midtvedt who highlights the challenges faced by parents as their kids grow, the necessity of establishing boundaries with technology, and the value of teaching effective friendship skills to create healthy social connections.
We discuss being flexible in parenting teenagers, navigating social media and privacy for teens, understanding and coaching friendships among teens, managing household responsibilities collaboratively, creating a bank of trust based on individual needs, and managing the emotions around the transition to an empty nest.
About Amy Betters-Midtvedt
Amy is a Today Parenting contributing author with more than a million readers and 25 years of experience working with adolescents and families, in both her job as a literacy coach and in her personal life raising five kids with her husband, Todd. So her work has appeared in many publications like Huffington Post, Parents Magazine, your Teen Magazine, as well as in so God Made a Mother by Leslie Means. Amy has a master’s degree in leadership curriculum and instruction and is the author of the book You’ll Make it, and They Will Too. Everything No One Talks About When You’re Parenting Teens.
Connect with Amy Betters-Midtvedt
Website: www.amybettersmidtvedt.com
IG: @amy.betters.midtvedt
FB: @amybettersmidtvedthidingintheclosetwithcoffee
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Read the transcript for this episode:
Dr. Amy Moore: 0:30
Hi, smart moms and dads, Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms podcast brought to you today by LearningRx Brain Training Centers. I’m your host, Dr Amy Moore, and I am joined by Dr Jody Jedlicka as my co-host today. Hi, Jody. Dr. Jody and I are going to interview Amy Betters-Midvett. Amy is a Today Parenting contributing author with more than a million readers and 25 years of experience working with adolescents and families, in both her job as a literacy coach and in her personal life raising five kids with her husband, Todd. So her work has appeared in many publications like Huffington Post, Parents Magazine, your Teen Magazine, as well as in so God Made a Mother by Leslie Means. Amy has a master’s degree in leadership curriculum and instruction and is the author of the book You’ll Make it, and they Will Too. Everything no one talks about when you’re parenting teens. All right, I’m excited for this conversation. Let’s welcome Amy. How are you guys?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 1:40
Good, how are you Really good? I’m sorry I’m in this like room with the sun in my back.
Dr. Amy Moore: 1:46
I mean I think that one of the secrets to surviving motherhood is flexibility. Absolutely surviving motherhood is flexibility.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 1:54
Absolutely Surviving motherhood, surviving life, surviving everything Like humanity just being a human person on the planet.
Dr. Amy Moore: 2:02
Yeah, but you know, I used to be a teacher educator, and so I would teach these future teachers that flexibility is the key to sanity.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 2:14
Absolutely so. So, oh, so true, I’m working with so many just brand new baby teachers right now, you guys, and that’s it right when I’m just like it’s okay.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 2:23
Another metaphor life. This is very rarely gonna go the way you thought it was.
Dr. Amy Moore: 2:27
Yeah, totally.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 2:29
Learn to accept.
Dr. Amy Moore: 2:31
All right, so I’m reading your book in the dark this morning over coffee. I am a brand new empty nester. Like as of Monday, I’m a brand new empty nester.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 2:43
Oh, I’m just doing this.
Dr. Amy Moore: 2:45
Oh, thank you. Yes, Listeners, Amy’s hugging me, Okay. So I cried, Like I’m’m reading your book and I’m just reflecting on, yes, these I have three boys reflecting on yes, we did this and years and working through that and the connections, and then knowing that every room is empty right now and so I feel I’m going to cry. I feel so raw in that loss that my youngest you know, we launched my youngest on Monday, and so, like I’m going to try and make it through this with humor, but I may, shed a couple tears.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 3:39
You are allowed to shed the tears. That is really hard. That’s like a big landmark that I feel is out there for me right now. And I my youngest, is just turning 14 on Tuesday and I know the speed at you, know that this is going to go at, and so that anticipation of that moment, I feel like I can just relate. I just feel like I’m one step behind you and I can see what you’re feeling and I know it’s exactly what’s coming.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 4:08
And yeah, it’s tough. I am coming at this from a totally different perspective. I have three adult children.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 4:13
We need you probably right now.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 4:16
I don’t know that I’m going to be a whole lot of help, but I remember planning to be a puddle and you know, like planning for that to be traumatic and feeling so excited when I was driving away. But excited for my child Like this is so exciting what they’re going to be doing. And the other thing is, once my kids all went to college, I think they spent more time at home with us than they ever had in high school, and so I just felt like they immediately had a new appreciation for what they were leaving behind and tried to come back often. So I don’t know if that helps or hurts.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 4:55
I feel like that is. I actually ended up because I was close to the empty. You know we have five and we had launched two, three was going to go, three decided to do a gap year, one and two came back to commute this year. So the weird thing is like I was the same way, like I’m pushing toward this empty, and now everybody’s here, all five of them inexplicably for a year. But the math is that they’ll probably all leave almost simultaneously right Within a couple of years. So, but it is good to have that perspective, because I forget that when I think about even Sam leaving, I forget oh, that’s right, ellie is actually laying on the couch in the other room and I’m going to take her to the doctor this afternoon because she lives here and she’s sick and I still get to take care of her, and it’s not what I thought. So that coming back is a, you’re right, it’s true. We don’t realize that and sometimes I still don’t appreciate it because I’m in anticipatory grief.
Dr. Amy Moore: 5:43
Yeah, and I think you know. My husband said yes, this is sad and you can, you know, sit in that space. He said but think about the opportunities that all three of them have met their forever person. They’re with their forever person and so really, this is the next chapter in their life, in our life, like I’m going to have three daughters now. But it’s sad at the same time.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 6:07
So it’s just like the very definition of bittersweet. It really is. Yeah, for sure.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 6:12
It’s kind of like, though, that you just don’t understand, or you just don’t recognize or know yet how things are going to be changing for the better, because we just moved into a whole different place of relationship with our kids when they all left. So you know, now I’m a grandma, and one of the things that really struck me when I was reading your book, amy, was how you talk about how, when kids are young. So our grandkids are between five and nine years old. They’re nine, eight, seven, six and five. That’s crazy.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 6:44
Five and nine years old, and they’re all in this stage of can’t stop telling you everything, like they’re just chatterboxes, and it’s just so delightful, you everything, they’re just chatterboxes, and it’s just so delightful. But I think what makes it delightful as a grandparent is that you know it’s going to change, and you know it’s going to change quickly, and one of the things I wanted to ask you is how can I prepare for that, or how can I set the stage so that I’ve got enough relational equity I learned that word from you, dr Amy Relational equity built up that when they get to be teenagers or preteens and they’re starting to separate from that stage of telling you everything, is there something I can do to keep that relationship going in, at least as close to it as I can. I just will miss that.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 7:38
I really think you’re doing it, you’re listening right. You’re an enthusiastic participant in their lives. You want to know about them. Like I look at it, if I look at it through like both a parent and a grandparent lens, I look at my you know the grandparents my kids have that they’ve remained very close with and they all have different relationships with different grandparents, but in particular, one of my daughters and my mom have a very strong relationship Somehow. My dad has pulled off that. Every kid has told me on the side, I’m Papa’s favorite, don’t tell anybody, but I’m Papa’s favorite. So he’s like, worked some sort of magic there. We don’t know what he was planting in their minds, but it’s worked for him. So you’ll have to ask him about that one.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 8:21
But I do think, like those little rituals too, that you do like, my mom has taken every kid shopping for their birthday and for back to school since they were little and picked out a back to school gift and that’s how they got their birthday and she has actually layered it onto Christmas as they got big. It’s just that tradition. They talk with her. They’ve got these rituals and routines that from little on they start to value so much the older they get Around 14,. Maybe you’re kind of like oh, remember, this is what you’re doing, and they might even have that feeling of like, but I was going to go with my friends or I was going to do this other thing. That they come back around, it’s just like. It’s like just like our kids, right. But I do think for grandparents you are so lucky because you’re leveraging all these fun things, so it’s like pure fun, right. Like we’re going back to school shopping with mom.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 9:04
It’s like there’s some fraught things that are happening there, right, there’s more layers that we’re appealing through to shop and you’re shopping with Momir and you’re just like so excited and Momir’s going to let you you’re going to get whatever you want. It’s going to be great. We’re going to get pretzels and we’re going to go also go to lunch and, oh, look at, she also got me that.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 9:19
You know what I mean. It’s all those things and those talks that come along along the way. So I think you’re doing it. It is just I love that relational equity and I think that in that ritual to them, my kids value every like, just the weird things, the cups they use at their grandparents, that they still want to be there. You know I mean all those little pieces are just so important and nostalgic to them as they get older.
Dr. Amy Moore: 9:43
All right. Well, let’s talk about your book First of all. Let me just ask you so I mean, you’ve worked with a ton of kids both in your career and you’ve raised five and so like why the focus on teens? What made you want to?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 9:56
do that. Well, the original book I was writing was not at all about teens that one’s still going to come because I set it aside but it really was just a multitude of things. What I found was, first of all, I have a group of friends writer friends who really have helped me in my writing journey, and they kept asking me questions about teens. They’re just a little bit behind me in the parenting journey and, as I’m, they’re like there’s nothing out there, amy, like can you okay, wait, just stop talking about this. But can we talk about this? We need to talk about this. And we found we’re in these conversations. They’re like this is your book. And as I looked around I was like, oh my gosh, this is exactly where I’m positioned in my life. Not only are my kids these ages.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 10:42
As a literacy coach, as an educator, I started out in fourth grade back in the day right, I was holding hands with little Sydney on the playground at recess. Such good memories having your kids. And I had kind of brought this journey. As an educator. I had gone through to fifth grade, sixth grade, I had found myself in seventh, eighth and now ninth and tenth grades and I just realized I love these kids. I just have this heart for this teenage awkward crazy walking down the hallway doing all the weird things but yet also trying to get in to the story that you’re reading but also look cool at the same time, and just all the layers of things this kid has going on. And then to have them in my house too and to see that flip side of what we see in educators, what they’re presenting to us in the classroom, and then to be able to see what they’re like at home, which is like still also sometimes really little and battling all these different things.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 11:31
And I just really wanted to serve a parent who are in this space, especially when I went through my first and you see this in the book my first pancake. I call her. She threw me for all the loops, like every loop you could throw a parent for I swear she was just like, aiming to like do all of them and as my firstborn I really, when she was little, it was like this baby will never do anything wrong as long as she lives. She is perfection put on the planet for the world to enjoy, no pressure on her right, no question as to why we might do a little rebelling, and then discovered she was her own person and parenting.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 12:08
Teens brought me just to my knees. I was great with them until they were about in fourth and fifth grade, where that had been my jam, and then I was like, what do I do with these kids? I have no idea and I so often wanted. I just wanted somebody to give me something Like I just need a book here where I can turn and say somebody survived. This moment, I just need to hear someone. Someone else’s kid got a tattoo in the Walmart parking lot and their kid did not die and the parenting went forward and they’re also talking to each other. I just needed that and so I wrote it, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore: 12:37
I love that. A tattoo in the Walmart parking lot, in the back of a van, right In the back of a van.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 12:42
Just like from a random friend of a friend.
Dr. Amy Moore: 12:45
Yeah, and I love how you wrote and it looked like a monkey did it. It’s so bad.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 12:51
And she would tell you I wish you could see it. She’s like, yeah, it’s terrible, like I need to get this fixed someday, like I 100% do, but I don’t know what you do with this situation.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 13:02
How did you go from first pancake to knowing something had to change? Like I call myself a recovering first pancake because I am the oldest of four, and yeah you do, and yeah you do. But how did you come to that decision, realization that, like okay, this is what I thought was going to happen isn’t happening. Now, what do I do?
Dr. Amy Moore: 13:23
Well, let’s first explain to listeners what that means. First pancake.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 13:36
The first pancake is that first you make your first pancake and you burn it. And you burn it or it’s like super doughy, like one side super light, so you turn the heat up and they flip it and the other side’s burnt and it’s just like not correct, right? Your first pancake is kind of like I put one pancake in, usually on the griddle first to try to figure out like how is this going to be right, right, is my batter right? Is it too thick’s a toothache? And then that pancake is just kind of like a little wonky. But the rest of the pancakes benefit from me learning those moments right. So my first born is affectionately called the first pancake, my poor last born. They like to tease him by the last pancake that you have after everyone’s full. No one wants pancakes. I know no wonder he has a good sense of humor. No one wants pancakes, I know no wonder he has a good sense of humor. So that first pancake was that training ground and I will fully admit it took me way too long to figure out that I was not doing things correctly right. I was really felt like I knew what I was doing and a lot of that. I have wonderful parents and their parenting style matched very well with who I was as a human person. So my thinking was I’ll just do those things and then that will all work and we will all walk forward in joy.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 14:45
And somewhere along the way I realized I birthed a person who is absolutely very little like me when it came to a lot of these things and therefore I had no tricks. I was like, okay, but I’m going to keep doing this, so I’m going to keep grounding you, like, okay, it didn’t work, I’ll ground you for longer. Maybe if I ground you for longer still, that’d be great. Oh, I’m going to lecture you, I’m going to lecture you longer, I’m going to take more things away. And all that happened was she would just keep pushing the envelope again and later told me, like I knew you were going to ground me. I would just think, okay, she’ll probably ground me for two or three weeks. Is this enough fun to warrant that three-week grounding? 100% worth being grounded for three weeks? And she would go do the thing Like young me never would have done that in a million years. Right, that was totally me by the way.
Dr. Amy Moore: 15:32
Okay, so you can appreciate that I was that teenager. You were that teenager. It’s worth it. I know you’re going to take my keys when I get home at 3 am, and that’s okay.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 15:41
That’s okay, because being at Hotel 3M is a thousand percent worth it. Yes, this personality was a shock to my system, you know. So we really butt heads for so long. And what was the line in the sand for me was I remember just like giving her the business and being so frustrated and realizing like at this point, she was not even like coming home for things, like she just wasn’t showing up, she was going right to her room. I mean, we were just in such disconnect and I remember looking at her and I could just see in her eyes, as I was telling her all the ways she was living life wrong. She just was sad. I could see it in her eyes. She was sad and defeated and couldn’t wait to get away from me. And I thought this person is never going to come back to this house when she leaves. Because why would she? I get it, I get. Why she? I could get her point right and I just knew that I did not.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 16:42
I remember when she was little and we used to give these kisses. You know, every time she laughed it was like Eskimo butterfly, cheek, cheek. You know, every time we laughed I thought how do we go from that to this. I don’t want this. This is not what I want for my relationship. I want to be the place they want to come back to for their whole lives, and so I knew it was me. It was me and we say that in education all the time. Right, we get frustrated sometimes with what students are doing. It’s us, we are the ones who have to make the change so that they can make the change, and so I knew that in that that that moment was when I pivoted.
Dr. Amy Moore: 17:19
Yeah, you write. Sometimes we need to let go of the rules and focus on the human. We show them that they are still seen and that they matter.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 17:30
Absolutely Just exactly as they are, and that’s it’s a tricky thing, because you do have to accept they are a different, they’re an absolute separate person with their separate path that’s going to go on to have this separate life that you are not going to be able to actually control. By the way, just a real big bummer I had so many good ideas for what she should be doing, and so you have to release them and let them know. This is great. You’re on your own path and I see you for who you are, not for who I want you to be or who I expected you to be.
Dr. Amy Moore: 18:09
I love that you wrote something like you have to remember that our kids are not made in our image, they’re made in God’s image. I loved that right Like we’re not creating little mini-me’s as much as we would like. You know, I call my youngest my mini-me right, but in reality they don’t belong to us.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 18:32
They do not, and that was a really hard shift, because I spent a lot of time overriding that voice that God has put inside of us to lead us forward with my voice, my very loud voice of what they should do, and it created a lot of doubt in them and a lot of conflict.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 18:47
And so one of the things I find myself saying a lot now on this other side is you know, I’m going to offer you this idea that I have based on my experiences in life, and I fully expect you might absolutely brush off 97% of what I’m about to say, but I want you to consider it. But ultimately, I want you to remember there’s a voice inside you that’s speaking to you and that’s the voice I want you to listen, that’s the voice I want you to trust, that’s the voice God put inside you, and so you know, take from us as other humans on your journey that are a step ahead of you, and love you like more than anybody on the planet could love you. I’m offering you this in the spirit and then go forth and trying to recalibrate that, to allow them to have a strength of self that they’re meant to have strength of self that they’re meant to have.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 19:38
One of the things I love that you did in the book is at the end of every chapter. First of all, you talked about all the hard things right, All the hard things that every parent has to deal with. But at the end of every chapter, I loved how you put what you can do and what you can’t do. Number one I just think it gives you this feeling like, okay, I need to step back and understand that I have a part of this, I own a part of this and what can I do different, rather than sitting there waiting for them to change and if only they would do it this way, if only they’d do it my way, then everything would be fine. But stepping back and like thinking about okay, could I say this different? Could I think something different? Is it really going to matter at the end of the day if he or she doesn’t do it the way that I do it? And I just felt like that was really empowering for everybody involved in that situation.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 20:33
So good job, I liked that too, Thank you, it’s learning from my mistakes, Right. I didn’t want the book to be because there isn’t one a prescription for parenting Like here’s what you do Follow my 10 easy steps. If it were that easy, we’d all be out there feeling great all the time about parenting. So I would like to get into some specifics, right.
Dr. Amy Moore: 20:54
So we’ve talked about oh my gosh, this is hard. It’s hard while we’re in it, it’s hard once they leave, but let’s talk about some of the big challenges that we know most parents face when they’re raising teens, and so I want to start with phones and social media, because, oh my goodness, is this such a controversial topic? And you actually have a philosophy that’s super similar to mine, and so I want to read a quote from you and then just have you speak to it. You say we cannot be the world’s ultimate snoop, as tempting as that may be. While you can access their texts, social media photos and contacts, that doesn’t mean you should.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 21:42
Talk about that, amen. Well, I think about, like the most my mom could hope for was to find, like, a note in my pocket when she did the laundry, to like give her a little bit of scoop, or like hear a side of a conversation, right? Otherwise, we had a lot of privacy growing up in a lot of room to make a lot of our own mistakes, for better or for worse, right, and if we are accessing every bit of what they do and going over it, first of all, where’s their room and their ability to have privacy? You know, privacy also comes with trust, and I talk about that, right, like there are times when we might be very concerned, um, but those are the exception, not the rule, right? If they’re going to have this thing and we’re going to give them this thing, then we have to let them learn to use this thing. So that’s also why I’m a little more conservative now about when I hand this thing over. When I hand this tool in your hands, it should mean I trust you to use it in a responsible manner and I don’t have to go through. It should mean I trust you to use it in a responsible manner and I don’t have to go through.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 22:48
I can’t imagine if my mom could have heard every conversation I ever had both sides, every single photo I ever took saw, every single place I ever was. Where is their autonomy and ability to have freedom in the world? And that’s where we’re super overprotective in this space, but at the same time they’re also doing all these other things. It just doesn’t make any sense. So, really, I very rarely check a phone, if ever. The youngest one now might just be like I can see what sort of websites you’re going on. I don’t ever go through anybody’s texting threads or photos or anything like that. It’s just like kind of where are you spending your time out there and making sure that you’re in safe spaces as a 14-year-old, when you have the entire world in your pocket and so that part’s very shut down? As opposed to my older kids, I should have done it.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 23:41
The opposite.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 23:42
Right, it’s like I was really worried about, like who you Snapchatting and who are you with on Instagram, but nah, I’m never looking at the websites you go to or I’m not looking, no, noticing that you could spend hours on YouTube and who knows what’s out there. So I do think there is that balance and we do have to be really cautious about when we’re putting the entire world in their pocket and then deciding very intently like and also, I cannot keep that up. There is no way, way. Who has time to like police? Like I’m going to give my kid a phone with everything in the whole wide world and then I’m just going to police it. Are you kidding me? There is no way a human can do that.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 24:10
And they are really smart. They are so smart, you guys. They will hide all the things. They will be one step ahead of us all of the days. So really being aware of that as well is really important. If you think you’re reading all their texts, you’re not. If you think you’re following them on Instagram, they also have their spam account that you don’t know the name of, that all their friends are on and they’re logging into a friend’s phone. Like I could tell you, I’m in the middle school and high school. I’ll tell you all the tricks, and as soon as I tell you the tricks and you know them, they’re going to all change the tricks, because then they know we know them Right. So you cannot, you cannot possibly snoop your way through this, this part of parenting. It’s just not healthy, it’s not right.
Dr. Amy Moore: 24:50
It’s not good, it won’t work, all the things. So do you have parameters and guidance that you give your child when you hand them the phone? What are some specific tips for balancing freedom and autonomy with internet safety?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 25:07
Absolutely so. This is the one spot, the only spot. My youngest child has more rules than anybody else. So we have really learned and a lot of this did come from my older kids who were like, listen, you see part of this, we see the rest of it. This is the dumpster fire you’re handing to our sibling. Don’t do it so like, whereas when I hand it and it was a very different world 10 years ago Instagram was just coming out. When my oldest daughter got Instagram right and like when Snapchat came out, I had streaks with all of her friends in high school. It was like just this beginning and then somewhere in the middle it deteriorated quite a bit.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 25:43
So our parameter is when you get your phone, you can absolutely have it. No social media at all, and right now we’re saying until 16, I’m super lucky. I’m ending with a easygoing boy. So some of my other kids, admittedly, would be pushing back quite a bit more than he is. He’s like, it’s fine, it doesn’t really matter to him. He likes to play singing monsters. So we’re cool and his friends. While some have social media and some do not, they all do have an active texting thread on Messenger. So you’re allowed to have a texting thread on Messenger. That’s fine. Every single thing that he downloads on his phone goes through me. So I just approve or don’t approve. There’s timers on things like Singing Monsters, because his frontal lobe will play that for 72 years and not realize that time has gone by and he’s now an old man like Rip Van Winkle, so we make sure that we have timers on that.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 26:30
And he has no access to the internet at all. So no YouTube, no search engines, nothing. So if he wants to search something, he’s absolutely welcome to grab the computer. He can sit in the middle of the common space and he can watch YouTube. Tell the cows come home. He can search for anything he wants. That’s all done in a common space and he can watch YouTube. Tell the cows come home. He can search for anything he wants. That’s all done in a common area and that’s just for his own safety.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 26:52
Like, I know what you’re in and I know what your brain is like right now. You know what your brain is like right now. So this is what we’re like, we’re doing what’s right for your current brain, and as your brain develops and becomes more mature, then your rules will change. And so, and has that been without error. No, there are ways around all of this. There are, and found some.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 27:13
The key to me has just been going in just to see like what, what’s on his phone and what is he using, and that has been plenty for me to catch the few spots where I’ve had to catch something, and otherwise we’ve been great.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 27:24
Now do I know he’s also probably left out of things? 1,000%, he is definitely left out of things. I am 100% okay with that, because 95% of the bad things that happen in middle school right now are happening on Snapchat or are happening on all sorts of different places. So that has really also bolstered my confidence in making the right choice for him, and I do see our culture moving in that direction. I hope that we’re starting to understand what we’re actually handing to them and we’re starting to make some changes and, at the same time, pushing them out into the world. Like, okay, instead, go ride your bike, walk to a quick trip. Like, find a place to go play golf, do something else that is outside, because our kids aren’t used to growing up that way collectively and we actually have to position them to go do some of those things.
Dr. Amy Moore: 28:17
So what I’m hearing you say is you give your kids and your advice is to give kids freedom to be connected socially to their friends, so through texting, through messenger, through phone calls, and then the limitations are on access to whatever is out there, whatever is out there, absolutely.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 28:42
And two, like as a boy, he games a lot with his little headset and he’s got friends he can talk to. He feels very connected socially. I think through that. And when he does that, that’s also in an area where we can hear. We’re not eavesdropping. It just happens to be in a common space where it’s loud and we have to sometimes say be quiet, right?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 28:59
But it’s also that accountability that other humans are around you To have access to the entire world in a little closed bedroom. You know it’s actually bananas when we think about it, right? So my advice is yes, absolutely. And then and it’s also really difficult once you get it, to take it away. So, if you’re in doubt, just don’t do it. Hold out as long as you can on each thing, because once you do it and then you realize it’s bad and you have to take it away you away. It’s like when you hand a kid a sucker, one of those giant suckers when they were little, and then you’d realize it was a mess and you’re going to have to take it back. It’s just the same, just as sticky and horrible.
Dr. Amy Moore: 29:40
Yeah. So I allowed my two middle schoolers at the time to convince me that Grand Theft Auto was just a racing game Like. They very carefully chose screenshots of racing to show me before I would say, yes, you can buy this game right, and this has been 15 years at this point. They were genius about it. They’re so smart, like genius about it. They even had live action clips to show me because I thought I was doing my due diligence right. Grand Theft Auto Don’t they steal the cars. No, mom, they just race the cars through Vegas streets. And yeah, okay, right. So imagine my shock I don’t know, five, six years later when I realized Grand Theft Auto is rated R plus and I had said yes to my middle schoolers buying it 100%.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 30:53
I said yes recently to an app called DuckDuckGo because it had a cute duck on it and it came through my you know he’s got a whatever it’s like. You get a little screenshot of like someone’s requesting blah, blah, blah. It’s like DuckDuckGo and I’m in busy. I’m like, oh, that’s cute, there’s a duck on it. Sure, you can have it. It’s an internet browser that deletes all of your history as you do it. Same right. So we’re going to make mistakes. This is not going to be perfection either. None of this is ever. We’re doing the best we can right. You did the best you could in that with the knowledge you had at the time With the knowledge you had and they carefully curated that knowledge.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 31:36
Oh, absolutely, and I’m sure when that app was requested it was in the middle of a school day where I was at work and definitely busy. It’s all right. Of course I’m just going to be like, yes, that duck is so cute. Duck is not cute, but a duck is dangerous. But yeah, but we’re doing the best we can. So, yeah, we can’t protect them from everything. We do know that, no matter. Like, the key then is that conversation. Right Is later, and I know I had that like with my son. There was stuff when he turns like 18 and 19 where I was like, oh great, thanks for telling me now. But when it happens in that moment, it is that connection to be able to say, all right, we’re going to regroup.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 32:14
For sure. You know, one of the things that was always, I think since the beginning of time, has always been a challenge is navigating your kids’ and Friend Issues. And you talk a lot about that in the book, and when I was thinking like could I give an example of this with my kids, I think my kids had different issues with different friends. You know, for some it was oh, I don’t know if they’re the best choice of a friend for you, and with others it’s oh, my goodness, do you have friends, do you have somebody to eat lunch with? And you know just how do you communicate and navigate that with your kids.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 32:51
That’s so huge. I feel like we have that same spread kind of here for each kid and you know our hearts, like our mom hearts, are like you watch them walk in and you just want them to have a friend, like you want them to have somebody that they can eat lunch with and that they can be close to. And you know that’s been a journey for each of our kids and throw a pandemic in the middle of it which I think has really broken a lot of our kids’ relationships and we’re still seeing the fallout of that, especially in our schools, that kids are disconnected. So I think friendship is a really huge issue that kids do need actual coaching around. I was just in a classroom this morning and realized these kids it’s January and asked them how many knew the names of every kid in their class. Five kids raised their hands. So they’re not connecting with each other like they used to. And on top of that we have kids who, like in the best of times, weren’t necessarily connecting or were picking all the wrong friends. Social media also. Really we’ve had that happen, where you are meeting people online and I just want to curse that the internet was ever invented because you are connecting to these people. I don’t know who they are, where they’re coming from, if they’re real, and when they are real, it’s even still bad.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 34:01
So we have spent a lot of time talking about what makes a good friend how do you feel? And again a lot of time talking about what makes a good friend. How do you feel? And again, a lot of that comes down to that inner voice how does this person make you feel when you’re with them? Are they bringing you up? Are they bringing you down? We have talked, actually recently, like you probably heard this too like you’re the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. So who do you want to be like some of the five people you spend the most time with? So who do you want to be like? Who is like a role model for you, and how can you become friends with that person? And so, early on, I know, with one of my daughters, we did I encouraged a coffee date with a friend, which was just as like, fraught with nerves as a date with a, you know, like a date. Date would have been Right down to like what are we going to talk about? How is this going to go? They need some pushes, I think, sometimes to find some of those connections and then, on the flip side, being really open and honest, like when you are and I think we went through that a lot when you think about getting a tattoo in the back of the van like, okay, who are you with Right and who are you with when this is the road you go down, or when this consequence ends up happening, like, is that what you want? You want more of this or are you looking for a different path? And I’m finding and I think this rings true.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 35:22
I think we find this as women, still in our own friendships. We have this idea that our kids are going to have, like, this friend group and they’re going to have their high school and then it’s going to be this great group they’re going to keep getting back together with, then they’re going to be these college friends, all these things. That’s an expectation and that’s not necessarily just going to shake out. Friendships are difficult. They’re allowed to change. You’re allowed to.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 35:40
Was my best friend. She keeps saying she’s my best friend, but also this does not feel like a good relationship. So how do we teach them to move away from those relationships and that it’s okay. Sometimes it’s okay to be sitting without friends, that you’ve got people you talk to in your classes, but none of this feels like a good fit. That’s okay. Where else do you have relationships classes but none of this feels like a good fit. That’s okay.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 36:09
Where else do you have relationships? You have relationships with siblings and grandparents and aunts and uncles and parents and people that you work with and all these other spaces. Those all count as relationships as well, and teaching them just to be healthy in those spaces has been really helpful. And we’re still having these conversations with my 23-year-old right as friendships grow and change like. What does this look like for you now, even as you’re starting to think about launching into the world? What friendships are going to stay, what friendships aren’t? It’s all fine, but it is just learning at the heart of that, to navigate relationship and taking some of that pressure off, because they feel so much pressure to have all these friends and to be doing all these things and I’m not doing all those things right, like very few people are. It’s okay, it’s okay, you’re just fine.
Dr. Amy Moore: 36:57
Yeah, my mom taught me when I was younger that if you end up with one or two really good friends, then that creates that full social life for you. Right, and I didn’t believe it at the time, right, because I think as a teen you want everyone to like you and I think you know it takes a very long time, well into adulthood, before you realize that not everyone is going to like you, and that’s okay, right.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 37:26
And that’s. I tell them that same thing. And then it’s like like, do you like everyone? Like, are you telling me you honestly like everyone? Well, no, well then, what are you expecting Like? You know what I mean? That’s just the way it is.
Dr. Amy Moore: 37:36
Yeah, it’s okay. Yeah, so we actually have interviewed a social scientist from here in Colorado on our show a couple of times. Her name’s Jessica Spear and she wrote a book called BFF or NRF so best friends forever, or not really friends, and it’s actually a workbook that you can do with your preteen teen that helps you assess each person in your life as are they BFF worthy or is this person just going to be an acquaintance and that’s okay, and I thought that was a genius publication, that is, I just wrote it down.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 38:21
I feel like I need that.
Dr. Amy Moore: 38:22
So, listeners, check out that episode. Jessica Speer, bff or NRF, if you want to dig a little bit more into that. Yes, so cool.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 38:28
check out that episode Jessica Speer, BFF or NRF, if you want to dig a little bit more deeply into that. Yes, so cool.
Dr. Amy Moore: 38:33
I love that, yeah, okay. So let’s talk about chores and responsibilities. So I will tell you, our kids had this name for themselves. They called themselves the Child Labor Force and they would go. It reminded me of like Marvel, you know cartoon, you know like Wonder, twin Powers activate. So we would finish dinner and it was time to do the dishes and my oldest would go child labor force and they would jump up and they would get through the dishes as fast as humanly possible and when there were three of them, it was fast, it was quick, it was easy. They kind of made a game of it. But as they aged out of the child labor force, like how, like what should our expectations be? Should one person have to do all the dishes? I don’t think so. But what do you think? Speak to all of that?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 39:35
I don’t either, because they’re not our slaves, no, and you’re just a person with me. I know how that feels, right, nobody wants to be that person, and so you are exactly correct. And I mean especially being a teacher, like I really tried to like chart a lot of this, like chore it out, like classroom jobs and all those pieces which only works as long as I’m going to maintain it, which isn’t long, typically right, so you can do all of those little things. But I love that child labor force because to me, that speaks to like this collective right and that’s really where we’ve made so many changes. And at one point here I remember looking around and thinking I am so in the weeds trying to do all these things and trying to make people help me that it made. I was like who would ever want to be a mom in this house? Nobody. This looks like the worst job ever, because it feels like the worst job ever. And why does the person who like has the kids now I’m supposed to also do all the things? It didn’t make any sense and so really we started to recalibrate on so many levels, right, every single person here is involved in this community and you’re not just like helping mom when you do the dishes, because that implies everything is my job and then you are my helpers. That is not the case, especially as they get older and especially now. I have, you know, a 23, a 21, a 20, a 17-year-old and a 14-year-old all living here and everybody has jobs and responsibilities and everybody has a reason why they’re too tired to do the dishes, right, myself included. But it isn’t about helping. It isn’t about helping mom. It isn’t about helping. It isn’t about helping mom. It isn’t about helping dad. It’s that we all live here in community.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 41:11
So we I’m a big fan of the family meeting with the post-its and the charts and the whole thing. So we have had family meetings. I think our last one was really effective, where we really a couple of them were, one where we like sorted out all the jobs in the house and determined who was doing them and almost all of them were me and then walking around to see how well they were done and it was horrible. Like that’s where Sam had to be like no offense, mom, but you are not doing a good job. I’m like, of course I’m not. I am one person Like how can one person do all these things Like these are not, take the post-its off. These are not actually my jobs, these are our jobs. How are we going to maintain our community space?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 41:46
And so for me that isn’t really a differentiation here between community space and personal space. I don’t really get into their personal space very often. Every once in a while we’ll do, we suggest, a 10-minute tidy every day, and then every once in a while we will be like all right, all laundry plates, all the things have to clear out of your room and you got to do a dust and a scrub and just kind of do a reset. That’s your own space, the community space. We’re all responsible for every single thing. And so really right down to you know people saying, well, I didn’t eat today, so I’m not going to do the dishes I didn’t eat here. Do you eat here ever? Do you think maybe sometimes I do your dishes when, when I don’t eat, yeah, do I sometimes do laundry’s not mine? Yep, and so will you, because that’s part of being in the community. So really just trying to encourage that shift and that is everybody.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 42:33
Sometimes I find myself like sending the boys out to clean the garage and the girls and to clean the kitchen, and they very quickly called me out on that. Like, why would the boys be better at cleaning the garage? That makes no sense, because they’re boys, what no? So what are we good at? Where can we use our talents? Who’s good at what? And sometimes, you know, it also is not always going to be fair.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 42:51
Two of mine just had this conversation last night. They like to divide up the kitchen as a science. So I am going to unload the dishes and then I’m also going to wash three pots and then you are going to wash the rest of the pots and put it like what? Just get it done, I don’t care, nobody cares. You see, dad and I ever do that when we’re working together. It’s ridiculous.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 43:16
So, trying to build that understanding and it’s just about getting it done. And, of course, the person who just cooked the meal should they also be in there now cleaning up the meal? Probably not, if there’s enough people to do it. So really, that’s really served us very well and I hear them having those conversations with each other, now that I’m not running Like guys. We’re going to clean the kitchen. Mom, just got done cooking. Mom, you sit down. Dad, you sit down, you, whatever happened, and then we’re all going to, we’re all going to work together, and I also hear them sometimes letting each other off the hook, which is really cool, like Kate will be. Like I have a huge AP exam tomorrow, oh then you can go, don’t worry about helping so that it’s building that understanding of community underneath it all. It is, it’s time consuming and you have to stick to your guns a lot and you have to also let it be done how it’s done, which is really hard because, sometimes that’s not how I do it.
Dr. Amy Moore: 44:01
I love how it breaks down traditional gender roles too right. Like where it says breaks down traditional gender roles too right. Like where it says hey, mom is not responsible for everything in this house, we are all responsible for the things in this house, and so we’re teaching really great life lessons so that when they do leave and find their spouses and have their own homes, they are not having an expectation that the woman is responsible for it all.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 44:32
Amen. One of the things my mom did really really well well, both my parents did really really well is like when we’d have big things like okay, it’s spring, the lawn needs to be raked and let’s get out there and do that, and they would have all of us do it. But my mom was particularly good at pointing out not necessarily that the task was fun, but wasn’t it fun doing this together? And so now my sisters and I all have this mindset of well, raking the lawn stinks but we’re going to have a blast doing it and you know there was always good food and all of that kind of stuff that went with it and I just always thought she was pretty clever to point out you know the silver lining in that all the time that’s so huge.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 45:20
Absolutely. I felt the same, like we always do like good music, you know what I mean. Like, while they’re doing something, they’ll dance around. That’s where I have to just be like okay, settle in, amy. They’re going to clean the kitchen for an hour and a half, right, like I could be done so fast, but they’re making it fun for themselves, right, and so it’s going to take a thousand years, but I appreciate that, right. Like, okay, good, that helps me reframe that. I’m going to reframe that as they’re having fun, having a good time.
Dr. Amy Moore: 45:47
Yeah, I love that. All right, we need to take a quick break. Let Dr Jody read a word from our sponsor, and when we come back, I want to talk about this idea of having different rules for different kids and how that’s not unfair. When we come back.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 46:06
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Dr. Amy Moore: 46:58
I love how Dr Jody adds commentary into the ask. I felt like GoAmi too. Yeah, exactly, again, we were just talking about, you know, not like traditional gender roles. Yeah, so for sure. Okay, so I let’s see.
Dr. Amy Moore: 47:17
So one of my kids’ middle school teachers had this sign on her wall that said fair doesn’t mean everyone gets the same thing. Fair means everyone gets what they need, and so I was reminded of that when you wrote having different rules for each kid doesn’t mean it’s unfair. I told my students the broken leg story every year. If one student were to break their leg, every student wouldn’t get a cast on their own leg. Instead, one might have a cast, another with a paper cut might need a Band-Aid, and another who didn’t need a thing at the moment. Each person would get their needs met, but they should prepare to look different. There simply isn’t a rule that works the same for every single kid. We need to look at each kid and each situation and move forward from there. Each of these people is a different human and we parent accordingly. I love that, parent accordingly. I love that. Talk a little bit more about that philosophy.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 48:11
Oh yes, this is just so true, and that’s why I hesitate. People will say things like what is your curfew for your junior? I don’t know, tell me about your junior, right? That’s what we need to be thinking about, because for every single one of my kids, the curfew of their junior year was probably different. So it is about who is that human, what are their needs and how are they functioning right now in the family. There have been times where an older person in the family has a curfew earlier than a younger person in the family. That’s just the way it goes.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 48:45
So, as we’re looking at things like the rules surrounding it, is very much a negotiation with each person. We talk about something called the bank of trust here as well, and that the more you are doing what you say you are going to do, when you are, you know, walking your talk, you get a lot of deposits in the bank of trust, and the moment you’re not doing that, you can get little withdrawals, and sometimes you get a really big withdrawal here and there where the bank of trust. In the moment you’re not doing that, you can get little withdrawals, and sometimes you get a really big withdrawal here and there where the bank becomes quite empty and so rules also fluctuate for each person. It isn’t that your curfew is always going to be 11. Now, you didn’t come home till three in the morning. That was a lot of worry and stress on the family. We’re going to come home at nine until you’re home at nine o’clock a lot and then we can say, ok, the bank of trust is filled back up. So each person kind of has that knowledge that they also impact the structure around them. It’s not just me saying here’s your rule. It is like here’s kind of what we agree on and we negotiate some of that right. Like sometimes I think it’s going to be 11, but they make a pretty decent case for 12. All some of that right Like sometimes I think it’s going to be 11, but they make a pretty decent case for 12. All right, that’s fine, as long as we’re all kind of living truly in the household. Then it also helps them understand it’s their decision that caused the impact to their situation. They have control and they have say in that.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 50:09
And that looks so different for each person. Because really, like I think about that first pancake, now that second pancake, it was like go ahead, please stay out, stay out later and have some fun. Why are you always home at nine? Right? It really was that idea of wanting her to kind of explore and go out in the world a little bit more and almost needed that little bit of a push to be more social, or, and then, of course, being okay with that when maybe it wasn’t. Also, knowing that you know, we can really go at it.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 50:39
My first pancake and I and just about this conversation back and forth like this, my second born, if I were to do this, I’m yelling, like this is a yelling face. I could be talking this and I’m yelling right. So just knowing that approaching that person is very different, our relationship is very tender. She will say to me like, can you just change your face when you say that, mom, can we have a quieter conversation about this? Can we talk about this when you’re more calm? She’ll even say right, because she’ll know that I might kind of jazzed at, but it’s very different person. And then the third, my first boy. Then I was like, oh goodness, now they don’t talk at all At least this particular one does not and that door is always closed. And what is happening there?
Dr. Amy Moore: 51:29
Yeah, I love this and I parented the same way. I don’t know if you did, Jody, but I trusted my kids until they gave me a reason not to.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka: 51:38
Yes, and that was the language we used, and I love her language about having this bank of trust, and so really, you’re treating every child the same. If you’re treating them with this bank of trust, it’s just what they do with it is different, and so it’s kind of both things. You know both ways of looking at fair. I saw that same fair comment that you talked about. You know where fair is not everybody gets the same thing. When I was literally driving my last child home from dropping her off at college, where’d you see it? I was watching a podcast or something on YouTube, like I was watching something trying to learn something. Yeah, and the speaker said that and I thought here I am driving home from dropping my last child at college. Why did nobody tell me this ever before?
Dr. Amy Moore: 52:29
And we know that that is something that flies out of every child’s mouth. That’s not fair right.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 52:36
A thousand percent.
Dr. Amy Moore: 52:37
I think it’s really a great opportunity for us to share why a child gets something different right. That it’s not about fairness, it’s about need, and so that child needs something that you don’t need right.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 53:02
The more clear we can be about that from little on, the better it is. I very rarely hear the words it’s not fair here, other than around the dishes. That’s the only place that there’s like a large sense of justice in my house. Other than that, there is a really a pretty good understanding that you and I think it comes from this. They know when they need something, their needs will be met. They will be listened to. We will trust them.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 53:28
When they say like, for example, when you say you need a mental health day, I’m going to trust that that’s what you need and we’re going to give it to you and that you’re not going to abuse that ask right. And so when you see someone else staying home for a mental health day, it’s not that you need one too, and they get to stay home and I’ve got to go no, today, this is what they need, just like when they have strep throat and they’re home, we don’t all stay, and so over time I really think there is that sense, and I do think the other part that’s really cool about that is they start to see each other’s needs as well and understand that in community we all are going to have different needs throughout life. That’s a really awesome life lesson that we can plant in them just by recognizing and connecting with them as their own individual human.
Dr. Amy Moore: 54:18
Well, and it’s really difficult for someone without a fully formed prefrontal cortex to have fully developed empathy, and so when we can immerse them in those situations that help build empathy, I think that’s a gift. It really is.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 54:36
Just those little bits.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 54:37
It might be not that Sam is feeling empathy for Kate in that moment, but he has understanding in his mind of why it’s like this, I can understand this and I know that this rule is also true for me, because really, the one rule is that we’ll try to give you what you need, to the best of our ability, when you need it. That’s what we’re going to try to do, whatever that is, in whatever time and sometimes to the best of our ability, isn’t going to be exactly what you want, but it’s going to be as close as we can get. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore: 55:10
We are at an hour and so we need to. I know, right, it’s hard to believe that zipped past.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 55:20
I know it went super fast Amy.
Dr. Amy Moore: 55:22
how can listeners find you?
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 55:26
Well, I am all the places. I am on Facebook, instagram, a little bit on TikTok thanks to my kids, which is kind of crazy. But the best place to probably go, because sometimes socials are crazy, is my website. That leads you to everything. It’s amybettersmedvetcom. There’s links there to all my socials. There’s a place to sign up for my newsletter. There is a link to every place that sells the book, which is all the places and a little shop there too, of little goody things that my husband sometimes makes and puts in there.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 55:59
So all the things, amybettersmidbetcom. Can you spell that? Yes, okay, so my last name is better with an S B-E-T-T-E-R-S. You’re good Now the next part is mid-bet M-I-D-T-V-E-D-T. I find if you just start putting in the front of that, I pop up yeah, and you should be able to find me. Or you can always find me through the book. If you search the book, you’ll make it, and they will too. Once you find the book, google does a nice job of displaying my picture and a little link to my website, because apparently AI works for us sometimes.
Dr. Amy Moore: 56:34
We’re actually going to put all of your links in the show notes so that listeners can find more about you. A link to get your book Amy, thank you so much for being with us today. This was such a fun conversation, oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me.
Amy Betters-Midtvedt: 56:49
I feel like I could have chatted all day with you guys, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore: 56:52
All right, moms, thanks for listening today. If you like us, please follow us on Instagram and Facebook at the Brainy Moms, if you haven’t done it already. If you like seeing our faces, you can find us at the Brainy Moms on YouTube. And if you love us, we would love it if you would give us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, so that we can reach out to more moms just like you. Okay, that is all the smart stuff we have for you today. We hope that you feel a little bit smarter. We’re going to catch you next time.