Mindset Swaps to Skyrocket Your Joy with guest Dr. Wendy O’Connor

About this Episode

On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, Dr. Amy and Sandy interview Dr. Wendy O’Connor, a Stanford-trained positive psychologist. After facing burnout and the whirlwind of transitioning into motherhood with three children in 15 months, Dr. Wendy transformed her career path and embraced the vibrant world of positive psychology. In this episode, she shares her journey and how she helps women harness self-trust and evidence-based methods to design lives filled with joy and purpose. Explore her unique approach of making “power swaps” to enhance happiness, starting with transforming FOMO into JOMO.

We talk about maintaining harmony in relationships while staying true to your values and priorities. We also discuss strategies to identify what quality time means for you and how to balance these personal needs with the expectations of others. Learn how to break free from the cycle of perpetual agreement, especially for those who struggle with people-pleasing tendencies, and establish boundaries that honor your authentic self without sacrificing connections with loved ones.

Finally, we talk about replacing criticism with curiosity and self-doubt with self-compassion. Learn how to take empowered actions that align with your values and navigate the pitfalls of overthinking.

About Dr. Wendy O’Connor

Dr Wendy is a Stanford-trained positive psychologist and success coach. She helps women design their most meaningful, intentional and fulfilling lives. Utilizing her evidence-based success method, dr Wendy has helped thousands of women worldwide live a life they’re obsessed with. 

Connect with Dr. Wendy

Website: https://www.drwendyoconnor.com/

Instagram: @DrWendyOconnor

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drwendyoconnor

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Read the transcript for this episode:

Dr. Amy Moore: 0:30
Hi, smart moms and dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, brought to you today by LearningRx Brain Training Centers. I’m Dr Amy Moore, I’m here with my lovely co-host, sandy Zimalis, and hey, if you have to leave early today, be sure to go to thebrainymomscom to check out everything that you missed. So Sandy and I are super excited to welcome our guest today, dr Wendy O’Connor. Dr Wendy is a Stanford-trained positive psychologist and success coach. She helps women design their most meaningful, intentional and fulfilling lives. Utilizing her evidence-based success method, dr Wendy has helped thousands of women worldwide live a life they’re obsessed with. Welcome, dr Wendy.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 1:13
Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Sandy Zamalis: 1:17
We’re really super excited to have you. So I thought we would start off by having you kind of share what is positive psychology and kind of how you got into this and working with women in this area with women in this area.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 1:37
Yeah. So positive psychology, to put it simply, is the science of happiness. And I came across this field several years ago now when I was going through my own burnout period in life after I had three daughters 15 months apart. So at the time I had two thriving clinical psychology practices. They were built from the ground up. I was so proud of them, the work was so meaningful, everything was beautiful.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 2:00
And then I had three children and within that period of time, suddenly everything shifted and I started to feel more burnt out and energy felt different. My values started to shift. I didn’t feel as lit up by the work as I had once and I started to say to myself I’d come home and talk to my husband about this too. I’d say what’s missing? Like something’s changed, what’s going on? He’s like well, you’ve had three children in the last 15 months. You know things are going to feel really different.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 2:27
And that wasn’t enough for me. I couldn’t accept that it was just the transition into parenting, into motherhood. That would have really completely tilted my reality. So I did some self-internal work and exploration and got really curious about what was going on. And what I realized is that for me, I felt like I was in a place of surviving and no longer thriving. I felt like I was in this place of languishing, checking the boxes, going through the motions, making it till bedtime, starting the day over Groundhog’s Day, and the work that once lit me up for many years wasn’t really anymore. My energy felt depleted and I just knew that there was something that I was not focusing on. I was focusing on getting through a day, but I wasn’t focusing or learning how to actually live a lit up life in a new season of life. And I’m not a person that settles for living a non lit up existence, because it’s just not how I’m wired.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 3:28
So I wasn’t going to spend the rest of my career in my practice unsatisfied or unfulfilled. I was going to figure it out. So I came across positive psychology and I couldn’t believe that there’s a science of happiness. How amazing that there’s research that teaches us what really lets us be our most flourishing, happy selves. And that’s when I it was that aha moment. For me, it was ah, this is what’s missing. I’m not actually designing my life to thrive, I’m just going through motions to survive. And when that clicked for me, that’s when I knew, not only personally what was going to shift, but also then professionally, what I wanted to change in my career path. So that’s how I got into this specific work.

Dr. Amy Moore: 4:10
All right. So you totally shifted your entire therapeutic approach based on this stage in life that you found yourself in and the emotional state that came with that stage of life is what I’m hearing you say was all of it right.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 4:35
It was the cognitive piece of it, it was the thoughts I was having, it was the emotional state, it was my habits, lifestyle, the way I was living. It was the whole picture had shifted and I had made a grand pivot. And I gave myself full permission to do that, without having any evidence or guarantees that it was going to work. I just knew that if I really led my next chapter with what I teach my clients to lead with, which is self-trust, if I led with self-trust, I wasn’t going to go wrong. I was going to figure it out and that’s what I did.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 5:05
I started to close doors on my clinical practices. I didn’t take more patients I would still see some of the ones that I had for a while and then I started to branch out and to start coaching women and to help other women and figure out what does it even mean to design a life you love? What does it mean to show up with zest every day? What does life look like when you suddenly take the reins and don’t allow yourself to settle for status quo anymore? So I did. I made a grand pivot and I didn’t have any real reason to believe it was 100% going to work, but I just knew I needed to try.

Dr. Amy Moore: 5:39
I love all the adjectives you use too. I mean it just sort of it’s like you have fireworks going off around your head when we talk to you. That’s really Okay. So you made this post on Instagram the other day that I thought, oh my goodness, this is going to make the best episode to talk to you about. So the title of your post was make these power swaps to skyrocket your bliss. Talk about a hook, right, who is not going to click on that? Right? Skyrocket your bliss. So, anyway, so I click on it, because I got to find out what these power swaps are and you have six of them, and so I want us to talk about those six. So the first one was replace FOMO with JOMO. So replace fear of missing out with the joy of missing out. Talk about that for us.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 6:32
It’s funny. I just did a deep dive training for my current clients on this topic, because it was really related to five things that I don’t care about, and because I choose not to care about these things, I protect my joy. So one of the things we really a lot of women do is think that there’s a need for more to be happy. I need to do more, need to be more. I always need more to get to more success, or to get to next level happiness, or to get to next level beauty or whatever it is, and the reality is that we often need less. We need to care less about the things that don’t truly matter and don’t truly reflect who we are. Right, we had our pre-chat about shopping and we know Sandra does not like to shop, and so for us to have a whole episode on shopping, sandra’s going to be like I’m out of here. This is not my jam, but not enough women do that in their real life.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 7:26
They don’t let themselves really make decisions aligned with who they are.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 7:31
They make decisions aligned with who they think they’re supposed to be, and one of the versions of us that we think we’re supposed to be is the person who is liked, who’s included, who’s invited right.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 7:42
And of course, there’s just inherently that desire to be survival instinct.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 7:46
We want to be included and welcomed into a community, but so many of us feel caught up in this thing called FOMO, this fear of missing out. I’m not going to be included or I won’t be invited back, or I’m going to miss out on the memories or the opportunity. And instead, when we let ourselves just take a breath, really think through if this is a thing we even want to say yes to, if it really does align for us, we invite Sandy out shopping. She’s going to say no, thank you, but I appreciate the invitation. When we let ourselves move through that decision and land with our gut on what’s true to us, we get to embrace what’s called JOMO, the joy of missing out. You get to actually enjoy what you really wanted to be doing with your time or energy, how you value your time or energy being spent, and you don’t get caught up in this idea that there’s something that you’re missing just by staying home or just by opting out or just by not fearing a future rejection.

Dr. Amy Moore: 8:41
All right. So my guess is that for introverts that you work with, this is an easy one, right? I’m an introvert, so I have zero desire to go to that party or zero desire to take part in that very loud event, but my guess would be that the extroverts that you work with are probably paralyzed by this idea, am I right?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 9:08
Well paralyzed, I think, might be a strong assumption. I think that there can be a place where extroverts might get a little bit more confused about when to say yes or no, but that comes from a different reason. So extroverts saying yes to an invitation would be because they get lit up in a room and they love the conversation and it really brings them to life and it gives them energy. So that’s actually an aligned yes. But when we talk about fear of missing out, it’s really more so that it comes from an insecure place of feeling fear that you’re not going to be liked or accepted or you’ll be rejected. And so when we think about extrovert, introvert versus fear of acceptance, rejection now we have a bit of a split. Do you see what I mean? Absolutely.

Sandy Zamalis: 9:54
I was thinking more of like the people pleasers. Right, Like the people pleasers, we’re going to have a hard time.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 9:59
Yes, the people pleasers have the hard time and those who do fear like that’s where that comes from with people pleasing that fear of being rejected or not being liked or not being invited next time does feel like a true risk. So how do we move from FOMO to JOMO? It comes down to self-trust. It comes down to and this is the inner work and it’s always the inner work, it’s always this work but it comes down to really trusting that you’ve got your own back. You don’t need to be at everything to be liked. And if you did need to be at everything to be liked, you’re not really liked for who. You are right. If you’re accepted for who you are, it’s okay to have a pass or many passes, and to say no and to decline an invitation. You’re not going to threaten your relationships. But a lot of times with people pleasing, we get nervous that if I’m not doing all the things to the letter, then I’m going to be seen differently.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 10:52
Truly, the self-trust comes in when it’s like it’s okay. It’s okay if even someone’s not thrilled that I said no. It’s okay if someone doesn’t love that I declined an invitation. That’s actually okay too, because I trust my relationships, I trust myself. I can get through it, I’m resilient, it’s not something I need to worry about, it’s not something that has to be threatening to me. And then, when you give yourself that permission, then it’s like oh, I’m so happy. I’m cozy on the couch with a blanket and a cup of tea. This was so the right decision, and I don’t have to say that canceled plans are my favorite plans anymore, because I made the right call for me.

Dr. Amy Moore: 11:26
It seems like it would take some boundaries work too, and just that ability to get comfortable with saying, okay, I’m going to protect my one day off or I’m going to say no to things that drain me, even if it disappoints the other person. I think I know that in my counseling practice, boundaries work is some of the hardest work we have to do, but then the most rewarding work, right Once people are all in.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 12:00
Right. It’s tricky because there is an actual threat involved in setting a boundary. So we could never tell somebody, oh, just set the boundary, everything’s fine, they won’t care, or there’ll be no repercussions or consequences, because that’s not a promise that we can make. The truth is there are risks and there can be consequences, but what matters more than those moments of consequence is being true to ourselves and allowing ourselves to cope with that moment or that disappointment or that rift, and we can do that. But a lot of times we tell ourselves that that feels too scary or we don’t trust that we can navigate that, so we don’t even bother trying to set the boundary.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 12:39
Scripts come in handy. I have to say, with a lot of my clients we will just talk through and I’ll say, hey, I just set this boundary right. Did that sound hateful, does that sound mean, does that sound disrespectful? And they’ll always be like God. You make it sound so easy and it’s just because when you, the intention behind a boundary is to protect, it’s to protect a relationship, it’s to protect ourselves, and so it’s coming from a place of love, it’s not coming from a place of hate or or disrespect or being mean. So when we say, set a boundary in a way that, just that we do our best for that to come across, we do mitigate some of the risk, but there is always inherently risk and we don’t have control over that. We don’t have control over everything anyway, so we have to pick and choose our battles, yeah.

Sandy Zamalis: 13:25
So the second thing that you wanted your viewers and people who followed you to replace was over committing and changing it to quality priorities, which I feel lands in this lane of boundary setting. So why don’t we kind of share with our listeners? How do you replace over committing with that quality priorities?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 13:45
This taps more into aligning with our values and this is, I think, another swap that I had mentioned. But it really comes down to this values-led living. It’s really about understanding that, as people pleasers or as women that just want to say yes and be helpful out of the kindness of our hearts, that there needs to be a limit to that before we turn into a place of sacrificing who we are or what we need in place of that yes. So when we realize that we can say yes forever, but that will come at a cost, there will be a line where that comes to not just being super helpful and generous with time. It will turn into now something’s gotta give and something’s gotta be sacrificed, and now I feel unhappy or resentful or frustrated or regret that I made this decision. So to make this swap, it’s really about knowing what your values are.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 14:40
So if I were to say and this is a great question that your listeners can just ask themselves, what are the best when I think about quality time spent in my life, what are those activities and who are they with? This is a simple way to just cut through a lot of the noise about like, well, what do I say yes to and what’s quality and what’s not. Ask yourself first, according to who I am, what I value, meaning what matters most to me, what does quality time look like? If I were to completely design my life to be only quality time spent doing whatever it was that I thought was important, what would those things be? And, when we know what those are, even write those things down.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 15:26
Keep a cheat sheet handy. It can make it much easier to know what your yeses are and then what your natural no’s are, and to not get those lines crossed, because we want to be helpful and we have big hearts and we have maybe the time to do it. We want to be really discerning with how our time is spent, because that’s actually how we’re going to decide how we feel about our lives. Are we fulfilled or not? When we’re overcommitted, we’re really not fulfilled.

Dr. Amy Moore: 15:49
So what happens when you’re married to someone who has an expectation that you participate in additional commitments, right? So by deciding what is a quality priority to you, you also have to balance what these expectations you know of your spouse might be, or significant other, or whomever you’re, you know, responsible for in your home, even your kids, right? So how do you balance? Okay, this isn’t really my priority, but this is my loved one’s priority, and so I want to be supportive. How do you balance that?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 16:25
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think that there’s a difference between our priorities or values, and then a shared value experience as a family or as a unit and so one of the ways that we think about that is to say these are the things I prioritize and that I value, and somebody whom I love dearly may have different values or priorities, and so how do we honor each other’s values? How do we honor what each other would say is quality time spent? This can come down to literally making a decision of I want to honor that value or I’m not interested and I’m going to go do my own thing, which you know that leads to its own outcome or it can be a recognition of when we look at this is, I think, why the terminology can be really helpful for people.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 17:10
When we look at each other in our relationships and experiences and kind of think like oh, they care about this and it’s so annoying or it’s such a burden, but like I care about this, instead of really looking at it like values-based values feel deeper than just he cares about, she cares about, and when we come at this from a perspective of this is a true value for somebody, for my loved one in this situation, can I, am I willing to honor that value, oftentimes because there’s such love there?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 17:41
We are, but it doesn’t mean that and it of course depends on what we’re talking about when you say like extra commitments or obligations. But it really comes down to if I’m willing to honor their value because I love them and this is important to me to support what they love, then that’s a beautiful thing. But they’re also within that umbrella could be situations that push us over to overcommitted or to sacrificing ourselves, and in that situation it’s like really going to be at the micro level of like what’s the thing coming up at the time, instead of it being like I support everything that falls under my loved one’s value and so I’m always just at the beck and call of whatever they need or want, versus I respect this value of theirs and I will participate in supporting that because I love them. But that doesn’t mean that every single thing that could come up as an arm of that value is the thing I need to jump for and the thing I need to sacrifice my own needs or desires for.

Dr. Amy Moore: 18:38
Yeah, what’s stirring in your head, sandy?

Sandy Zamalis: 18:41
Oh the fan. I was panicked because I thought, oh, the fans turned on. And I really want to hear what Dr O’Connor has to say about this, because it is so hard with you know, especially for the people pleasers and I’m here for all the people pleasers that are listening to this podcast, because I definitely am a people pleaser it is really hard to make that distinction with a loved one and to prioritize and not overcommit and not put yourself last in those quality priority kinds of discussions, because it can be really easy to just slide out of the way. So it does take some, I think, work internally to figure out your own boundaries on that side of things so that you’re not just always giving your time away and giving your priorities away.

Dr. Amy Moore: 19:35
Well, and especially if you have.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 19:37
Oh, go ahead. Sorry, I was just going to say that I think, before we can be comfortable or even experiment setting boundaries courageously, it’s so important for us to do the internal work, to even know what it is that we desire in value. So sometimes the louder value can be the dominant value, and so whoever’s the loudest about their value in the home could be the one that just leads. And so you’re like well, I guess I don’t care that much, so I’ll just follow the lead. And so I guess, if I really care, I’ll figure it out later.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 20:06
And that’s when, a lot of times, women find themselves waking up one day going is this really as good as it gets? Like this is my life, like I work so hard and I try so hard and I love so hard and I’m, I do all the things and I’m so agreeable and I want to please, and I want to please and I want to appease. But now I’m waking up and I’m like feeling very disconnected from my own fulfillment. What’s going on? It’s because we let ourselves go on too long, for too long of an extended period, not connecting to who we are and what our values are. So it’s not. The boundaries are such an important piece, but they’re the expression of the value. The expression of the value, and if we don’t have connection to those values, clearly what those are, then we have a real struggle knowing how, when and how to harness the courage to actually express the values. So yeah, that’s a really great point. I’m glad you brought that up.

Dr. Amy Moore: 20:55
All right, so let’s move on to the third one that you posted about, and that is replacing criticism with curiosity. I’m curious about that.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 21:06
I love that. You are Excellent. So, criticism versus curiosity, this is a really, really fun one. I again just coached on this today. These are the themes. I love my swaps. It’s like an admin calendar. I’m like what’s the next one you’re going to open? It’s so fun. So, yes, these swaps are so good, they’re so good, take them, use them. They will change your life if you do make these swaps 100%.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 21:32
So criticism I think about as mostly, and do I have a self-compassion one on there? Is there another one coming up with self-compassion? Yes, what’s the contrast of the self-compassion? Self-doubt? Okay, okay, thank you.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 21:46
So with criticism, I think a lot about if we want to live our happiest existence, if we want to live our most fulfilling lives. Being overly critical of ourselves or others is going to distract us from that goal. It just is. It’s going to be a detour that takes us on a path of negativity. Negativity is the opposite of the positivity that we want to experience more of. So the idea that every time our brain secretes some self-critical thought, we just hold on to it, we expand it, we make it louder and broader and we just hook into it is going to take us down the spiral.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 22:25
But if we start with, instead, swapping that spiral of criticism with curiosity, like huh, where did I get the idea that? Like, why am I thinking this way about myself? Where did I get the idea that I’m a failure or that I’m not good enough, or I can’t, do’t, can’t have it, or I’m an idiot? Whatever it is, whatever that self-criticism is, when we get curious about it we unlock a level of understanding that’s going to help us make different decisions. Right, we call that self-awareness. When we know why we’re being so critical, where that story’s coming from, whose voice it really is, not really ours, where that came from originally, it helps us feel more aware of our processes. When we’re aware of our processes now, it puts us back in the driver’s seat to make different decisions that align with how we want to feel. Criticism doesn’t lead us to the joy and fulfillment we want. So if we can understand through curiosity, why this pattern is happening, where it’s coming from, it gives us the opportunity to make a different decision in how we talk to ourselves, respond to things, react to our world and therefore get back on what I like to call our happiness highway, get back to that place of pursuing fulfillment and not battling our inner demons, because it’s a total waste of time.

Dr. Amy Moore: 23:43
That takes some effort, though, right. Like a lot of times we’re entrenched in it should be this way, or it is this way, or I am this way, right, and so to be able to kind of break that down a little bit and go wait a minute. Where did that idea come from? Where did that belief come from? That takes effort.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 24:06
Listen, we’re not here to talk toxic positivity stuff here. We’re here to talk the real deal. So the real deal of happiness is effort. The real deal of success is effort. The real deal of fulfillment is effort. We can’t fear effort. We can’t fear that. We’re’t fear that it will. We’re so willing to put so much work into everyone else in our lives and the idea of effort within our own happiness is the thing that we’re going to reject.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 24:32
Like that has to shift. That has to be a story that changes in women’s minds. It can’t be all effort out and no effort in. What we know is that the more effort we put into healing ourselves, becoming more self-aware, making these tweaks, rewiring our mindset, the happier we’re going to be, and that doesn’t just benefit us, it benefits everyone in our world. So it’s like it’s worth the effort is what I’m trying to say, but a hundred percent, of course it is. That’s why you hire me as your coach. That’s why you hire someone to help you move through this faster, Because when we do this on our own, it’s like it can. It can take a while.

Sandy Zamalis: 25:10
I love that you said this is not a toxic conversation, because we were, yeah, I yeah, yeah, it was my big hiccup Cause I didn’t know what positive psychology was before we were going to talk to you today and I thought I was like I’m going to ask her because part of my biggest pet peeve in the social media world, or just general pop psychology world, is like this weird positivity of I’m perfect as I am and there’s no room, no need to grow or learn anything new, and it drives me insane. So I love that you kind of framed that really well of being positive and being curious is how you get and unlock the next level for yourself. It’s not about just accepting things as they are, good or bad. There’s always growth and work to be done. Life is a journey. You aren’t perfected right where you are.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 26:06
Right and there’s no perfection. So it’s not like we’re going to get anywhere, that the work Right and it’s just a matter of. I think a lot of women that appreciate this work are the ones that really get it. They just get that. This is about a life experience, not about a finish line, and I think the initial season of life where we start out, maybe out of college, and we get going, we’re like there’s a finish line, finish line, finish line right, get the relationship, get the degree, buy the house, have a kid, whatever the finish line is in your head.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 26:33
But then inevitably, so many of us wake up and we’re just like, oh, what now? Because I did all the things, why didn’t it create for me all the outcome and results that I thought that they would Create? Why am I just not feeling content Right? And so that level of contentment from for most of us comes from Putting in intentional effort every single day to be our happiest, most fulfilled selves. And it’s not. Yet there’s a lot in social media and it’s funny because someone just commented on a recent Tik TOK of mine being like oh, toxic positivity. And I was just like oh, you don’t even know me because you don’t even know where I stand on this, and I stand very firmly in. There’s always work to be done, and this isn’t about pretending everything’s fine and rainbows and butterflies. It’s about designing with pen to paper, scripting your life very intentionally and deliberately. And that’s going to mean it’s going to be some frogs to kiss, there’s going to be some stones to uncover, there’s going to be some work to do, but what I can promise is that it’s worth it. And I actually have to say it reminds me I had a client who started with me and this was a couple of years ago and she said her biggest fear with signing on was what if I’m still not happy?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 27:46
Like what if it doesn’t work? And I was thinking, oh, my gosh, you’re speaking for so many, many, many women that don’t take the next step towards fulfillment because the fear is that it won’t be effective and that it won’t be worth the effort and so they’re not going to bother. And I was just like, oh, if only you knew what this is actually going to create for you. And then she did and she’s like, oh, I wish I did this sooner. And of course you do. But the answer truly is if you do work, let’s say we could talk about fitness if we wanted to.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 28:16
If you put in some work and you’re not seeing the results, do we just scrap the whole desire to feel healthy and well and fit? No, we figure out the next way and we pivot and we refine the practice and we get back up and go again. Same thing with our happiness journey. We find that we put all this effort into this relationship or this hobby or this career or this interest and we’re hitting a dead end or it’s not fulfilling. Now’s our opportunity to say, okay, so let’s shift. Your decisions are not meant to be life sentences, so we have to stop feeling like there’s the commitment to pursuing happiness. Is this like daunting, scary thing? It’s fun and free and flowy and that’s what it’s meant for.

Dr. Amy Moore: 28:55
Yeah, I always say it’s not a kidney when people think that it’s a permanent decision to try something right. It’s not a kidney, Not a kidney.

Sandy Zamalis: 29:04
Well, it’s a good segue, I think, into your next swap, which is because I think that’s really coming from self-doubt, right Like they don’t think they can do it or make a change, and swapping that for self-compassion. So let’s talk about that key aspect.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 29:18
Yeah, self-doubt will take you down. Right, the energy around self-doubt is negative. It’s going to take you down. It’s going to pull your energy down. Self-compassion is going to pull you back up. So what we know from Kristen Neff’s work in self-compassion is that people will think, oh, this sounds fluffy, oh, this sounds like you’re lazy and complacent and you just can’t work hard and you’re not a high achiever and whatever else. But really, what we know from the work of self-compassion is that it’s actually going to get you right back on your track so much faster than pursuing the self-doubt.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 29:49
When we’re stuck in self-doubt, that just means that we are reinforcing that belief through our actions. We feel stuck because we’ve created a reality around this belief. We have a belief of fear of not being good enough. And then we act as if that’s true and our world gets small and we play small and the lights get kind of dim and it gets kind of like not so fun and shiny and exciting and then we’re like see, this is like as good as it gets Like I can’t. How do I not doubt myself if this is what I’m looking at around me?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 30:19
But when we actually take a moment where we feel self-doubtful and we just think things like God, like am I ever going to get out of my own way? Or like what is wrong with me? Or I can’t seem to like get forward or get my goals reached, or whatever. It is when we lead there with self-compassion and understanding, much like we would with our kiddos. Right, like I think about and I share this example like when our kiddos were starting to walk, when my baby started to walk, one started to walk much earlier. I have twins, so the three girls that were 15 months apart, there was my first daughter and then 15 months later there was two more daughters, and so- I was doing the math on that earlier and I thought maybe I just misunderstood her.

Dr. Amy Moore: 31:00
Maybe she meant 15 months, another one, then 15 more months and another one. Anyway, okay.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 31:06
So one twin started to walk much faster than the other one. Okay, so we’ll use them as an example. So when the first twin started to walk, everyone’s so excited and it’s like oh my God, you’re walking, this is amazing. Now the other twin, like was, would just like keep falling Right. So, like the self doubt would just keep falling right. So the self-doubt would just. Let me be the voice of self-doubt and tell me which one is going to help her walk faster.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 31:27
If I’m just like, oh, you fell again, you’re never going to get this. I don’t think you have it in you to walk. I’m so sorry. You might as well just stay seated for a while, because this is your lot in life. This is not the way we would talk to our babies learning to walk. But if I was like oh my God, get back up, you’ve got this. This is hard, I totally get it. This is hard, but you’ve got strength, let’s get back up. Now she’s going to walk again. Right, she’s going to walk faster.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 31:52
Silly example, but it really just demonstrates when doubt leads, we shrink no-transcript, get back up and try again.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 32:24
So it’s really literally in the opposite direction. A lot of times we think that self-doubt is like, oh well, I just need like it’s almost like this excuse or self-preservation to just be like, oh, I can’t, I can’t do it, so I’m not that person, I’m not the one who, I’m not the person who and you hear people talk as if it’s their identity instead of just honoring that, like there’s this fear of not being enough or there’s doubt about who they are. And when we lean into that with compassion and understanding, all of a sudden there’s this opportunity to bloom and to shift and to change and to come out of your box and to come out of this shell. And that’s, and to change and to come out of your box and to come out of the shell. And that’s when real change happens and again, of course, so fulfilling and worth it. But, yes, it can feel hard, but there’s no way around the hard. There’s no way around the hard we have to embrace hard sometimes.

Sandy Zamalis: 33:14
I think it’s important as adults for us to practice being beginners at things. I think that kind of can help with this mindset that you’re kind of describing. Trying new things and just allowing yourself to be a beginner at something is such a huge mind shift when you’re trying to try new things or do something new. I started I was telling Amy before we got on that I started playing with watercolors and then when you put it in a fancy frame, so listeners, if you with watercolors, and then when you put it in a fancy frame, so listeners, if you go on YouTube, you can see if you put it in a fancy frame it looks fancy. But you know it’s just give yourself permission to try something new so that you can then celebrate little small wins and successes.

Sandy Zamalis: 33:57
I think a lot of times you know where that self-doubt comes from is we expect perfection right out the gate, right. We expect to do something new and have it work out amazingly, instead of I tried something new, boy, that was hard, but look how far I got, or look what I got accomplished. I’m going to try that again.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 34:15
Yes, yes, it’s funny you say that because I don’t like starting again. I mean, I like I like starting again with my like shift in career and my and that cause that feels like it’s still coming from my wheelhouse. But I will say I do have this paint by number downstairs in my kitchen that I keep looking at and it’s almost just like glaring at me and it’s like, oh, you have to do it now. Looking at and it’s almost just like glaring at me and it’s like, oh, you have to do it now. I know I do, because this is part of it. It’s really this idea of beginning is challenging. There’s no doubt about it and I I always she called this like the sticky period. There’s like a little sticky, little sticky zone.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 34:54
So I have clients that recently who are talking about being nervous about, you know, meeting new friends and going out with friends and like, is it worth leaving the couch for the fire, for the TV? For I don’t know if I want this anymore. And right before we do the thing we’re like I don’t think I want that. That was a bad idea. How silly. Who cares about this right? But it’s not actually the aligned way of thinking. It’s not what you truly want. It’s the fear zone. If we think about the zones of growth, the fear zone is really uncomfortable. But when we move through that and we anchor into what we actually desire and we start to like get a little bit comfortable with the discomfort, now we are rocking and rolling and we can figure out what we like to do Speaking of that quality time what we value spending time on, and then we can also build some resilience along the way, because there’s sticky spots of paint by number are very intimidating for some of us, yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore: 35:47
Okay, we need to take a quick break. Let Sandy read a word from our sponsor, and when we come back we have two more swaps to go through.

Sandy Zamalis: 35:58
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Dr. Amy Moore: 37:02
Okay, we’re continuing this really fun conversation with Dr Wendy O’Connor about these swaps that can change how we look at our lives and how we experience our lives, and how they help us with some more bliss. All right, let’s talk about overthinking versus aligned action, so replacing overthinking with aligned action.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 37:29
I love this one. Yeah, that’s all you need to say. We just need to replace overthinking with aligned action. It’s like if we were to spend less time. This is the thing, and I actually created another post about this recently. I wish more women knew that they don’t need to learn another thing before they act. They just need to start moving. It’s overthinking that’s causing the destruction. It’s causing the disconnect between what they have and what they want, and we need to get into action sooner. We just need to start moving forward faster.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 37:58
And it doesn’t mean in an impulsive way that I don’t think through anything I want. I just go for everything it’s really about. We know we know the thing that we want to work on. We know the thing that we want to just go for everything it’s really about. We know. We know the thing that we want to work on. We know the thing that we want to be better in our lives. We know the thing that feels like it’s in between us and our happiest lives. We know what that thing is.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 38:12
Typically, we just don’t really let ourselves own that, because with ownership comes responsibility, and with responsibility comes action, and with action comes risk. And now we’re back in the fear zone and we’re like I don’t know if I want to take the risk. It feels too scary. How do I know it’s going to work? You don’t. But that’s the reality. You won’t know. You don’t know until you do. But thinking about it will never create it. Thinking about it won’t ever create it. So, instead of letting yourself be an overthinker and get stuck in this pattern of like, let me just think it through one more time. Or be an overthinker and get stuck in this pattern of like. Let me just think it through one more time. Or let me research this thing, or let me get another certification, or let me do the. Instead of going down this like the rabbit hole of more, cut the pattern of overthinking and just simply decide there is a stepwise process to get from where I am to where I want to be. There are steps that I would take to get that. What are those steps? And I’m taking one of them today.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 39:09
Whatever that, if there’s 10 steps, 100 steps, whatever it is, it’s really about choosing to not spend your life in contemplation and to spend your life in actually living it and seeing for yourself the truth. The truth will come from your experience. So if we spend days, weeks, months, years thinking about a thing that we want and then we go out for it and we realize it wasn’t the thing for us. We just lost time. Which is the most precious is our time.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 39:38
But if we’re like I think this sounds so fun or so exciting or could be so interesting or really cool or could make me happy and we act on it, that’s giving us the shortest gap between what we think we want and what we actually create. And then we’ll know I wanted that, I’m so happy I went for it, or it wasn’t for me. What’s the next move? It’s that simple, but it’s simple in theory and, of course, trickier in practice, because we get into our thought patterns and our habits of thinking, and so if your habit is overthinking, this can feel unnatural. That’s okay. It actually still is the work catching yourself in overthinking, cutting it off and inserting in that moment, even in aligned action, with what you desire.

Dr. Amy Moore: 40:24
I love that, I love everything you just said about that. We joke in my marriage that my husband’s a thinker and I’m a doer, because once I’ve decided that I want to do something, then I’m just going to go make it happen. But he’s an Enneagram 5, which is the investigator, and investigators have to know every detail about every single thing before they take the first step, and so it is one of those sticking points right with us. I’m like just do it, just do it. So you know, because I love your philosophy right of when you do the first step and you experience that success, or maybe you experience, you know, a space where you just got to make some adjustment, right, you’re activated, right, you’re moving and you’re experiencing the happy hormones that come along with that movement, and so then that sort of propels us forward to take step two.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 41:23
That’s right.

Sandy Zamalis: 41:25
That’s right. Well, we have time for your last one, your last swap, which was swapping validation from others for values-led life. So let’s kind of wrap things up for our listeners with that swap.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 41:43
Yeah. So this really brings it all home. The way that I live and teach and preach is to live by your values as much as possible. Now, there are, of course, going to be moments that we have little rumble strips on the side of the highway, moments and we disconnect from those values. That’s normal. But this is really about. What I teach is following your North Star, and your North Star is what your core values are, what your signature strengths are and what your deepest desires are. This is what I teach in my world. So part of that being values is really a huge part of decision making.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 42:18
Many women come into my space and say I have the hardest time making a decision, or decisions are so difficult, or I take forever to make a decision, but when we know our three pieces of our North Star, decisions become so much easier. Why does that matter? Because when we can build, what this does, when we align our life with these three things, is it is going to skyrocket inner self-trust. You’re going to trust yourself so much more to be able to make decisions that you know, most likely or more likely than not, are leading you in the right direction of happiness and fulfillment, and instead, what most people do is seek that reassurance instead of from within themselves, from other people. So there was a client that in the last year has had the most incredible transformation because her decisions would often be pulled. She would pull her people in her life, her family, her friends like do you think I should do this? Does this sound like a good idea? How does this sound to you? And she’d ask everyone. And then she’d come back and be like oh, I just don’t know if it’s for me. So-and-so said, this so-and-so said. And I was like, oh, this is exactly what it is to be searching for validation from outside of ourselves to feel good enough or on our right path inside of ourselves. You’re going through the wrong method to get what you want. What you want is to know that this is most likely going to be the thing for you and the way we know that is your North Star, not other people’s limiting beliefs, not other people’s stories and life experience that they’re going to answer you from. Think about what people.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 43:55
When I was like I think I’m going to start shifting away from clinical psychology and I’m going to be a happiness coach, guess what people thought of that. Right, like. They were like okay, like are you sure, is this a good idea? Like you have these established practices, why would you leave those or pivot to something so just uncharted at this point? And it was like well, because I’ll figure it out, because there’s a pull, because I desire it, because it aligns for me with my values and my strengths and my what my dreams are right now.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 44:29
So when we can learn through doing to build self-trust, validation from others falls away. We don’t need it anymore. But the reason why that becomes like this perpetual loop is because that’s where we place the value. We place value. Value it’s on our actual value, but we place value on other people’s opinions over ours, over what we want, and so we take their word as more legitimate than our desire. And when we stop that and we swap letting other people’s decisions, thoughts, beliefs, opinions influence our call, our life, we get to lean into what really makes the difference, which is our strengths, desires and values.

Dr. Amy Moore: 45:13
Fantastic.

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 45:15
That’s the difference, and I’m so glad. I have to say I was just thinking as I was answering that question. This is why I can’t get this across in a social media post. There’s so much to say and here we are with this little post that just could be. No one’s going to think anything of it because they don’t understand the depth of each of these concepts. So I very much appreciate you bringing them all to life for your audience, because this is where the magic happens. When you can actually understand what we’re talking about, boom, it’s such a breakthrough for people.

Dr. Amy Moore: 45:43
Well, and now you have an entire episode to attach to your post, so that when people go oh, let me dig in, that’s correct. Yeah, wonderful, okay, how can our guests, our listeners, work with you, find more about you? Where can they find you? What do you have going on?

Dr. Wendy O’Connor: 46:01
Yeah, so I’m mostly on Instagram at Dr Wendy O’Connor, so come say hi, introduce yourself. I have some incredible programs that go on throughout the year, so it always just depends on what aligns. If I can ever help, I’m always honored to, but just definitely feel free to reach out and ask me anything on any social media platform that you find me on, because I’m on most of them at this point.

Dr. Amy Moore: 46:22
All right, fantastic. Dr Wendy O’Connor, thank you so much for being with us today. This was a fantastic conversation and we appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to share your wisdom and excitement for life and for happiness with us today. If you liked our show, we would love it if you would leave us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. If you’d rather see our faces, you can find us on YouTube. If you want to learn more about cognitive skills and what those look like in action and our work with cognitive training, you can find Sandy on TikTok, at TheBrainTrainerLady. We are at the Brainy Moms on Instagram and Facebook, and you can find us at thebrainymomscom, so don’t forget to visit us there or our show notes for all of the resources that Dr Wendy talked about that our sponsor has to offer you, and just to be able to reach more smart moms and dads like you guys. That’s all the smart stuff we have for you today, so we’re going to catch you next time.