The Enneagram for Moms: How Your Type Impacts Relationships at Home and Work with guest Sarah Wallace
About this episode
On this episode of Brainy Moms, Dr. Amy and Teri interview Sarah Wallace, Enneagram Business and Life Coach and host of the Enneagram MBA podcast. Sarah walks listeners through the Enneagram personality types and how each type influences your parenting style at home and your leadership style at the office. Your type helps explain why you keep having the same challenge with your kids, the same fight with your partner, and the same issues at work. Knowing your type can have a significant impact on those issues and relationships! Whether you’ve never heard of the enneagram or you’re already an enneagram enthusiast, this episode is full of amazing insights.
About Sarah Wallace
Sarah is a Certified Enneagram Coach, host of the Enneagram MBA podcast, speaker, and workshop facilitator. With over 15 years in relationship building roles working with government agencies and companies like the US EPA, Federal Reserve Bank, John Deere, and adidas Outdoor, now small business owners, corporations, and event organizers work with Sarah to help them use the Enneagram to develop confident, empathetic, and emotionally intelligent leaders with powerful, productive, and happy teams.
Connect with Sarah
Website: https://www.enneagrammba.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/enneagrammba/
Facebook: Sarah Wallace (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=6825602 )
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahlynnwallace/
Special offers for listeners:
20% off a “Know Your Number” typing and next steps session for Brainy Mom listeners using this link: https://www.sarahlynnco.com/brainymoms
Read the transcript and show notes for this episode:
The Enneagram for Moms:
How Your Type Impacts Relationships at Home and Work
with guest Sarah Wallace
Dr. Amy Moore:
Hi, and welcome to this episode of Brainy Moms. I’m Dr. Amy Moore here with my co-host, Teri Miller, coming to you today from Colorado Springs, Colorado. Our guest today is Sarah Wallace. Sarah is an Enneagram business and life coach who helps her clients enhance their visibility messaging, sales, leadership, and overall of life by creating specific strategies that align with their personality, their values, their goals, all to become more life-giving and less soul-sucking. She’s also the host of the Enneagram MBA Podcast, an Elon Musk super fan, an avid spinner, and serial reader with at least five books currently on her nightstand.
Teri Miller:
So glad to have you here, Sarah.
Sarah Wallace:
I’m so excited to be here as well. Thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to this.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. This topic is, I just love it, so fascinating and work with relationships, with parenting, to understand the Enneagram types. I think it’s going to be super exciting, but before we even get into that, I’d love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about your personal story and what brought you here to being an Enneagram MBA coach.
Sarah Wallace:
Well, I am a mom of now an eight-year-old boy, and then I started, it’s so funny, and when we get into talking about the specific Enneagram types, I’ll share more about this, but it’s so funny looking back on where I started in my career for the first part, I was in an environmental compliance role, walking around rock quarries, which is so funny now because I would share the story like I got asked more than once if I was lost looking for the mall. So there were a lot of things that I liked about that, but it was just not the right fit.
Sarah Wallace:
So I ended up getting pregnant and then I moved back to where I am now to be closer to family, and I knew that that’s not the job that I wanted to do, but I wanted to work. So I had the opportunity to try out sales, which is something I never thought I wanted to do. I was like, “Oh, I’m not good at sales. It’s slimey. You have to be really convincing and that’s not me,” but I ended up getting into marketing and sales for a publishing company. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed learning about … Ultimately, sales is psychology. So that was really interesting just to learn more about how we think about things and are persuaded.
Sarah Wallace:
Then there after a while, again, learning more about my personality. It all makes sense, but I just got to a point where it wasn’t satisfying. There’s so many of us that are looking for our purpose in life. I had been on this 10-year journey of like, “What is my purpose?” So while I was in these different careers, I was also starting all these side businesses. The amount of LLCs I’ve started I don’t even know. So there’s that.
Sarah Wallace:
Finally, though, I was like, “You know what? Here I am, there’s people around me that I see five years ago that we used to talk about living our dreams and taking a chance, and I’m standing still, ultimately, and really circling the same cul-de-sac while they’re out there taking a chance.” Some of them became very successful and I’m still on the same place all this time.
Sarah Wallace:
So I ended up taking the leap also to focus on the parts of the marketing strategies that I really enjoyed for my former role, which was social media mostly, and then really focusing on the individual, less companies and more helping that individual build a brand and market themselves.
Sarah Wallace:
So through that, I loved that, but I realized even with talking about specific strategies and what platform do you want to be on, and let’s create your video content in a 30-day caption content, people were still struggling to hit publish. They were still struggling to hit record or even when they did, they would take it down or they would get started and a month later just totally fall off.
Sarah Wallace:
What I realized, it wasn’t necessarily mindset that tends to get thrown around a lot like it’s just, “Oh, you need a better mindset.” I think the problem that I realized was we weren’t understanding ourselves. So they weren’t understanding themselves enough to know that the strategy that I might be recommending that works for me, that works for somebody else wasn’t working for them not because they weren’t doing it right. It’s because they had a completely different personality. They were motivated by something completely different. They had a different goal. So it felt really heavy. Even when they were six, it was hard, and very draining and not sustainable.
Sarah Wallace:
So I brought in this self-awareness piece and the Enneagram just felt like the best container to help me overlay that. So ultimately now, I’m still getting to help people get visible, but when we start with learning about themselves, it becomes a much, we just let it be easy by pairing that with their personality.
Dr. Amy Moore:
So that leads us actually into the first question that we want to ask you is the importance of self-awareness and that most people get it wrong.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. I think a lot of times we think, “Oh, I should want to be this way. I should want to have a six-figure business. I should want to work this amount of hours,” or “I should want to help others in this way, and I should be okay with not getting paid as much,” whatever those shoulds are. We have a lot of shoulds out there and we should all over ourselves. I’m sure you guys have heard that saying.
Sarah Wallace:
Also, too, I will say we also end up putting up with unhealthy habits that we do for ourselves. We end up putting up with unhealthy relationships, jobs, all kinds of things because we don’t really know who we are in this moment. We don’t understand exactly who we really want to be, not what we feel like we should be, but who we really want to be and where we want to go.
Sarah Wallace:
Once you get really clear on those things, those unhealthy things that you have been putting up with are much less likely to happen, and then you’re able to step into the version of this yourself that is easy, that feels good, that feels aligned, and you don’t have to have that pressure of shoulds and guilt so many of us will put on ourselves.
Sarah Wallace:
So by doing that, then you can step into work that you love or hobbies that you love or let yourself play and not be a human doing and be a human being, but it really starts, we talk a lot about confidence, especially with women and confidence, and I think that the start of that, the root of that is knowing who you are and who you want to be to advocate for yourself, what you need, what you want, and then also have that inner knowing for yourself about who you are and where you want to go.
Teri Miller:
So for listeners that aren’t familiar with the Enneagram concept, with those different types, let’s just do a quick overview of the different Enneagram and-
Dr. Amy Moore:
Well, let’s hear about what it actually is first.
Teri Miller:
Okay. Yeah. I was going to say how it’s different from other personality tests. Yeah. What makes it different?
Sarah Wallace:
Great question. Okay. So the Enneagram test does get put in the bucket of personality assessments and tests. The difference is that it’s less about behavior and more about motive, which you can see how transformative that could be for your relationships with others, with your romantic partner, with your coworkers, even with yourself to know why you’re doing something that might be annoying to somebody else or whatever. It’s like, “Oh, they’re doing this because of this.” So I love that part of it.
Sarah Wallace:
Also with the Enneagram, it’s very fluid. So with a lot of other tests, I’m thinking Myers-Briggs, you get back four letters. With Strengths Finders, you get back five strengths. That’s just where it is. That where you are. That’s who you are.
Sarah Wallace:
Well, the Enneagram is made up of nine different types, but within that type, there’s all different ways that you might show up. So it is a little bit complex, but that’s because we’re complex human beings. So one example of that is when you’re taking an assessment or when you’re showing up just as a human being, your type, your motive is going to be the driver of those qualities of that behavior. So you’ll have the same motive, but what might change is when you’re stressed, there is a specific path that that type will go to when you’re stressed.
Sarah Wallace:
There’s also another path that goes to another number that will show up more when you’re living your best life, when you’re growing. There’s different levels of health, average health, unhealthy health, and then living your best life, again, health.
Sarah Wallace:
So one of the questions I get a lot is, “What types are most compatible?” It’s less about the type and how healthy you are within your type. So those are the two differentiators, and then those nine types reveal, and we have on nine type inside of us, by the way. So when we go through the list, you’ll probably recognize several of them that really resonate, but at the end of the day, there’s going to be one that’s really that core driver.
Dr. Amy Moore:
So before we talk about the individual types, can you just tell us a little bit about what are Enneagram type influences? Where does that show our in our lives?
Sarah Wallace:
Great question. It shows up in literally everything. So our relationships is one of the biggest places that it will show up, and also even just with the work that we do. Unlike some of the others that tend to show you your strengths, the Enneagram can sometimes be hard. You have to be pretty self-aware and willing to see some of the things that you maybe don’t love about yourself because what you’ll find is that you actually start to see the roadblocks, the reoccurring issues that you’ve been having.
Sarah Wallace:
You might question like, “Why do I keep having this issue at work? Why do I keep having the same fight with my partner? Why do I keep having the same challenge with my kids?” The Enneagram shines some light on, yes, your strengths, absolutely, but also by understanding your motive, you can see where it trips you up. So we’ll of get into to some of those later, but does that answer your question?
Dr. Amy Moore:
Oh, absolutely. I wanted our listeners to understand why it’s so important to dig into this because it has such global impact and can describe exactly why we behave the way we behave.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. It’s learning about ourselves. We learn about all kinds of people really since elementary school. We’ve learned about them, we’ve studied them. Very few of us have spent the same amount of time learning about ourselves and studying ourselves, but, really, we’re the common denominator in every single one of our relationships.
Sarah Wallace:
So by taking the time, what might seem selfish time to reflect, to journal, to read, to learn to study, is really the kindest and really the best thing that we can do for any relationship is to work on ourselves, to be self-aware.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Absolutely. All right. So let’s talk about those individual types. So, well, let’s start with type number one, the reformer.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay. The reformer, also known as the improver, the perfectionist, and the thing that’s going to drive them, especially when it comes to, I know your audience tend to be pretty driven, mompreneurs out there, they’re going to have this strong desire to improve things and make them better. They are going to be driven by this mission that’s bigger than themselves. So they’re coming at a business idea, at the work that they’re doing from this what’s best for the common good, not just what’s best for themselves. They’re going to be very ethical. They tend to be pretty black and white thinkers, right or wrong, good or bad. That’s pretty clear for them. So the thing that they’re driven towards is this need to be good, have integrity, and the thing that they’re running away from is to be seen as bad, corrupt, without integrity.
Teri Miller:
Okay. That’s so good. Well, let’s move on to type two. I want to hear what you have to say about that because that’s what I am. So I’m a type two, wing one, but tell us about type two.
Sarah Wallace:
Yes. Okay. My boyfriend is actually a type two, wing one. So love that combo. Our type twos are known as the helpers, and they are driven by this need to be wanted and to feel loved. So in business, thinking about the work that they do, they’re going to be driven to help and care for others. They’re looking for ways to offer value and to be of service, some sort. So you’ll think about the careers, the typical careers, I’m sure some come to mind, but even within a specific role, they’re going to be the ones that are, again, not thinking of themselves, but putting themselves out for the common good and wanting to be of service to others. The thing that they have to be aware of, and this is, I think, especially true for moms of all kinds, is that twos will burn themselves to the ground trying to help others. So they are very aware of others’ needs, but tend to be out of touch with their own needs and wants, and when they are in touch, it feels selfish to pursue anything for them.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. That one is true.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Does that resonate with you, Teri?
Teri Miller:
Oh, yeah.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah, I was going to ask. What about the two made you feel like, “Oh, my gosh! This is so me”?
Teri Miller:
I think it was the core desire, core fear, that aspect, that I don’t know that I would’ve recognized that about myself 20 years ago, but as I have done work in my life and dug into who am I, what drives me all that, what were things that wounded me in the past, it’s always this driving force, this desperate need to be loved. I just want to be loved, and then seeing in my kids exactly what you talked about that I have a big need to be of service, to be wanted, to be needed.
Teri Miller:
Like I told Amy, sometimes I drive my older kids crazy. They’re off on their own, I go visit them and I’m like, “What can I do? What can I get for you?” and they’re just like, “Chill. Oh, my goodness.”
Teri Miller:
I’m like, “I’ve got to be able to do something. How can I help you? How can I serve you?”
Teri Miller:
Then they’ll be like, “Okay. Thanks, mom.”
Teri Miller:
I’m like, “No, no, no. Thank you.” That makes me happy to be able to give and serve. So it’s good and bad.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that’s very, very two. I will say it sounds you have done a lot of self-awareness work, but I’ll have something to say specifically for women when it comes to the type two and the type eight when we get there, is that a lot of women initially mistype as a type two because going back to the shoulds that we were talking about earlier, it feels you should be a helper. So maybe you have put yourself into the helper role, but what will be the difference is if you’re really honest with yourself, and you don’t have to be honest with anybody else other than yourself, but for those that are truly helpers, like you’re saying, Teri, it’s going to feel easy, it’s going to feel more natural. There might be some of us who want to be the helper, feel we should be the helper, but maybe it’s felt forced or really hard and heavy.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Yeah. I would argue that Teri is not mistyped, that she absolutely fully embodies that type two helper. So I’m excited to talk about type three, the achiever, because that is me.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. So our type threes are the achiever. They are also called the entrepreneur of the Enneagram, and their driver in life is to be seen as successful. So the worst thing in the world for them is that they have this huge fear of failure, which we all have that, right? For those of you that are a type three, it’s the worst thing. You can’t imagine anything worse.
Sarah Wallace:
So when it comes to the work that you do, maybe the business that you have, you’re going to have that drive to succeed. You’re going to have very clear goals for your business, for what you want your life to be like. Threes are also, they have a superpower of efficiency. So it’ll be interesting if this resonates with you, Dr. Amy. So they’re in a group with our type sevens and type eights as well called this assertive group. There’s different groupings on the Enneagram. Those tend to be the visionaries. They have a vision, big picture thinker, but the thing that is amazing about the three is that they don’t just have a big vision, they know how to get from point A to point B. So they got a plan, they got a goal.
Sarah Wallace:
They also have this superpower to be very intuitive. So they can read a room and then they can shape shift or chameleon to be who they need to be in that particular situation, which has its pros, but also sometimes it can have its hardships to constantly feel like you can’t be yourself and, “Who am I really?”
Sarah Wallace:
I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, Dr. Amy, but threes also at some point tend to have a moment in their life, a time, a season where they finally burn to the ground. They finally have a burnout moment, and it’s like before the burnout and then they’ve done a lot of work and then it’s post burnout. So the behaviors will maybe look very different, but it’s usually because of some event that happened. It was too much this, this pressure to succeed became too much.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Sure. I can resonate with that. I’ve actually had a couple of those over the course of my 30-year career, for sure. When you said that our biggest fear is failure, if I make a mistake, it puts me in a tailspin and not just for 15 minutes. It puts me in a tailspin for days. So absolutely can empathize with other threes who have this need to just do it perfectly every single time.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. I’ll share just for those that might be thinking like, “Oh, me, too. So am I a one or am I a three?” The difference is going to come down to that motive again. So the mistake that you made is keeping you from being successful, potentially failing at something. Whereas the mistake for the one is so hard because, “There is a right way to do it and I didn’t do it right. I’m bad. I’m wrong.” So it’s a subtle difference, but that’s just one clue that might help you decide between those types.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Oh, I’m glad that you clarified that. Absolutely. What’s next, Teri?
Teri Miller:
Well, type four, the individualists. I know I’ve read that for type two that when I’m healthy and I’m doing things really well, I can teeter over into type four. So I resonate with some of that, too. So tell us about the individualists.
Dr. Amy Moore:
I do, too. That’s my wing.
Teri Miller:
Okay.
Sarah Wallace:
Oh, okay. So this’ll be a good one. Yeah. I’ll get into, yeah, we’ll talk about that in just a second. So the type four is also known as the individualist, the artist, the creative. They are the creative geniuses on our Enneagram. They also are capable of being extremely deep. Having meaningful conversations, doing meaningful work is very important to them. They are very comfortable with sitting with uncomfortable feelings. I think it was your last podcast episode you had a guest, Susan, and I don’t know which one of you brought up the example of the turtle or the rabbit or some animal that was sitting with somebody as a friend.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Oh, it was from the book, The Rabbit Listened.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay. Okay. Yes. So the rabbit is the type four here. I’ve got some type four energy because every other type wants to either put a positive spin on it or go into problem solving mode, but fours actually make amazing friends because they’re just going to be like, “Yeah. That sucks. I’m sorry that that happened to you.”
Sarah Wallace:
They are going to be driven by this need to be extraordinary, to be unique. Ultimately, they want to belong for being their authentic self. They don’t feel they can be their authentic true self. So the worst thing in the world for the four is to be stuck in some mundane task, mundane work, just ordinary feeling life or job. It’s going to be the thing that they’re going to be running away from.
Sarah Wallace:
Teri, you mentioned that your type two dips into that type four energy, and that’s where you go when you are in growth, you’re living your best life. That’s because twos tend to be very outward, others-focused. Both twos, threes, and fours are in the feeling center of intelligence, where you tend to make decisions with emotions from your heart center. The difference between the two and the four and where you want to dip into that is that twos feel the feelings of others, but fours are very in touch with their own feelings. So that’s that balance that that four arrow or that four energy will give you, Teri, and just helping you focus on yourself and paying attention to your own feelings.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. Absolutely. I see that in my ability to be a friend that when I’m just two, but I’m in the needy place of, “I really need that person to be a friend. I need them to love me. I need to serve and give and have them need me,” when I’m in that desperate place of two, I’m not able to be as good of a friend. Yeah. I recognize seasons where I’m outside of myself and I’m able to be vulnerably completely present, I want to serve, I want to help, I want to love, but I’m able to do it with this quiet peace, like you said, of just listening and, yeah, empathy and saying, “Oh, I’m here with you.” I don’t to need you to need me. I don’t need you to fill me up. I can just be present and love on you.” So yeah, it’s all just so fascinating. Yeah.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. Dr. Amy, I’d be curious what resonate it’s with you about the four that makes you feel you’re more wing four than wing two.
Dr. Amy Moore:
So I’m an introvert, number one, so super introspective and really I’m on that professional bent, not that standout be a star side, right? So yeah.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. Sometimes those, the type three with a stronger wing four, also sometimes will mistype as a one for that reason because type threes tend to get pegged. The stereotype is, “Oh, the limelight, and I’m more extroverted.” So you have that little four. With the four energy it’s like, “Am I a three or am I a one?” So that’s just really interesting to continue to dig and see what resonates.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Yeah, absolutely, and I can pretend to be an extrovert when I need to be, but that’s not who I am. Okay. So I’m really excited to hear about type five. My husband is a type five, investigator, and of all the people that I have interacted with and we’ve shared our Enneagram types, he’s the only five that I know.
Teri Miller:
Autumn is a five.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Okay. Nevermind then. I know two fives.
Sarah Wallace:
So now you know two fives.
Teri Miller:
So, Amy, you know Autumn. You’ve heard stories, and that, yeah, so fits our … I’ve never put that together, but she is so much like her husband. That’s so cool. Yeah.
Sarah Wallace:
I know. It’s so fun when you start to know who’s who. Yeah. The five is the investigator, the expert. They are the thought leaders of the Enneagram. Their core driver in life is to be seen as capable, competent, self-sufficient. So the last thing in the world they want to do is to be seen as incapable or incompetent, embarrassed in some way for not having the answer, not knowing the answer. They are very curious. They are very knowledgeable. They will deep dive into you a subject and become experts in whatever subject. They want to share for the most part.
Sarah Wallace:
So as a business owner or in the work that you do, their gift is going to be sharing all that they’re learning with their clients, with their teammates, and give some very high quality information so that those people can make decisions based on that information.
Sarah Wallace:
They are a little bit more introverted. I don’t want to say a little bit. They’re very introverted, stereotypically. They are in the thinking center with the sixes and the sevens. So their default mode when making a decision comes from their head. So the thing that they’ll have to watch out for is not getting trapped in your head.
Sarah Wallace:
So typically, they’ll withdraw to get their needs met and they’ll go within and they’ll escape into their heads. So knowing that about your partner or your friend or your coworker, you can know, “Oh, they’re not being mean or standoffish or rude. It’s just they need a little bit more time to process. They need to go within and think about things more.”
Teri Miller:
Yeah. It’s interesting. I see, yeah, so much of that. I can hear Autumn, for sure, and Jeff, except that I see Jeff as more of an extrovert.
Dr. Amy Moore:
He is an extrovert.
Teri Miller:
Okay. Interesting. Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Yeah, but everything else about him is an investigator.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. Okay. Well, so type six, I just think this type is just sweet and a big place in my heart because my firstborn son is definitely a loyalist. So type six, the loyalists.
Sarah Wallace:
Yes. They are known as the loyalist, the troubleshooter, sometimes the skeptic or the devil’s advocate. Their fear is fear itself. They want to feel secure and safe and grounded and supported. So that is the thing that is motivating all of their actions. So they will feel completely out of control when they don’t feel supported, when they feel unsafe in any way.
Sarah Wallace:
So they get called the skeptic or the devil’s advocate sometimes and can get dubbed as a Debbie downer in brainstorming meetings or planning fun events in the future because they’re going to think, “Well, what about if this happens?” or “We should be thinking about this and this and this, and then we need a plan B and a plan C and a plan D.” They’re not being negative. They truly care. They are very loyal and they care so much about their family, their team, their clients, whatever group they’re a part of, their community, that they want to make sure that nothing bad happens to them. So they’re going to make sure that they have a plan for a plan.
Sarah Wallace:
They sometimes can come across as anxious and very much also in their head, but, ironically, when crisis does hit, our sixes tend to be the most calm in a crisis because they plan for everything ahead of time. So while they might be frantic planning for all the things that could go wrong, when something does go wrong, they’re cool because they have a plan for the plan for the plan.
Sarah Wallace:
They are also very collaborative. One of their superpowers is this ability to take very complex topics and distill them down into bite-sized, easy to understand information. So whether you’re teaching, whether you’re, and it’s not just teachers, just teaching of any sort, explaining a topic, they’re going to be great at sharing that information with you in a way that doesn’t feel overwhelming and is easy to understand.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Excellent.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. It’s interesting. There’s a lot of that I’m like, “I don’t know.” Some of that with my son, Caleb, doesn’t quite fit. Some of like you said, being a Debbie downer or whatever, but the collaborativeness, being prepared. He likes to have his ducks in a row before he steps out into something, but the biggest thing I see in him that I think coincides with that type six loyalist is he is a very, very strong face. That idea on the list we have here, it talks about the wounding message, it’s not okay to trust yourself, that he asks people for help, “What’s your opinion? What do you think about this next step? What do you think about this idea, this job option?” He’s always asking for that, and he prays, and he seeks God’s guidance. That is this beautiful thing about him that he, yeah, maybe it’s a little bit of not trusting himself, but then because of that, he has such a strong grounding faith. So anyway-
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. The type sixes have an inner committee. That is their thing. The type one has the inner critic, a very harsh inner critic. The type six has a very loud inner committee, and they’re not necessarily harsh or yelling at them. It’s just there’s a lot of voices, like you were saying, and it’s like they don’t trust themselves. So the work for the six is to get more in touch with your own thoughts and believe that you have the answer already inside of you, and that you have the courage and what it takes to step in and make that decision and to take that action.
Dr. Amy Moore:
All right. Well, let’s talk about type seven, the enthusiast.
Sarah Wallace:
All right. The enthusiast, the multitasker, and this type has a motive to be free, to have options. Really, everything that they’re doing is driving towards satisfaction. They want to be satisfied and happy in life. So the thing that they’re running away from is being trapped in emotional uncomfortable pain or uncomfortable feelings because that takes away from that feeling of happiness, of being trapped in any way.
Sarah Wallace:
They are also big visionaries. They come with a lot of enthusiasm, for sure. They are able to see the possibilities in life, so the possibilities for other people and paint that picture, cast that vision, and they have this excitement. They can be very emotionally stimulating. They also really excel at finding these ideas that don’t really have anything to do with each other, but then somehow piecing them together and creating something that really is connected. So presenting these new ideas and concepts fits into that visionary vibe.
Sarah Wallace:
The thing that they’re going to have to watch out for, especially in work and really in anything, is this ability to get really excited it about an idea, and then a day later, a week later, a month later, it’s nowhere to be seen. It’s not on the radar. So their follow through is something that they will have to be aware of. This is my type, and this totally resonates. That’s the work that I’m doing myself is committing, deciding, sticking through something even when it doesn’t feel fun, even when it feels uncomfortable.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Well, and you said you can’t even count the number of LLCs that you’ve started. I was like, “That fits.”
Sarah Wallace:
Right. Yup. That’s so me. Yeah. One of the reasons why I have struggled in my previous job was because I was in a cubicle. Literally, I felt trapped in a box and so my environment, but now that I know that, and now that you start to learn about yourself, and your listeners start to do that, it’s like, “Okay. Well, I’m not going to put myself in that situation again where I’m going to feel that way. I’m going to make sure that when I start another business or I get another job or whatever environment I’m in, for me specifically, I’m going to have option. I’m going to have variety. I’m going to have flexibility in where I can work.”
Sarah Wallace:
Other people, like a six, for example, it might feel like the most safest, secure thing to go to the same place, to have the same job, to do the same thing, and that they’re going to thrive in that kind of thing. So they might be in an environment where there is no schedule and it’s just work from anywhere, and it’s like that’s going to feel chaotic and not be conducive to helping them thrive. So when what you need and what you want, you can advocate for yourself and put yourself in those situation so that you’re succeeding.
Teri Miller:
So good. So type eight, the challenger.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay, the challenger, the protector. They are seeking power and strength. The reason why they’re seeking that is because at the end of the day, they want to take care of themselves. They want to be able to protect themselves from injustice, from somebody else trying to control them, and also protecting those that they are closest with on their team, their family. So they can come across as angry and sometimes intimidating, but at the end of the day, they just have a lot of passion, and they do not want to be controlled. Autonomy is very important for our type eights.
Sarah Wallace:
I mentioned earlier with women typing themselves and accepting who they are and being really self aware. A lot of times we want to be a type two. A lot of women want to be that, and then a lot of times women don’t want to be seen as that type eight because that’s the, “Oh, she’s so aggressive. She’s so abrasive.” Really, it’s very different for men and women who have this energy. For a man, they’re the boss. They’re the ultimate. This is the ultimate leader of the Enneagram, but for a woman, it’s the stereotypes that are out there.
Sarah Wallace:
So women who identify with an eight, it is a little heavy to carry around and figure out how to be your true self while also navigating around some of that judgment that you’re getting, but accepting that not everybody has to accept you, like you don’t have to be a certain way. So that’s just something to pay attention, too, because sometimes I’ll work with women and it’s they don’t want to be that way. They don’t want to be seen as that way, but it’s beautiful. I mean, it really is. We need that power.
Sarah Wallace:
With my seven, I’m always thinking like, “Okay. Right now, I need to dip into that eight energy. I need to be decisive. I need to be straightforward. I need to be powerful.” So there’s so many amazing things about the type eight.
Dr. Amy Moore:
So of the eights that I know well, they seem to thrive in conflict. Why is that?
Sarah Wallace:
Well, it may not be that they’re thriving and maybe they are. They are not afraid of a hard conversation at all. It doesn’t bother them. They are extremely competent. They are extremely decisive, and they want what they want, and if they’re not getting it, they’re going to communicate like, “This is not right.” They’re going to be the one to send the food back at the restaurant.
Sarah Wallace:
My brother is a type eight and he runs a men’s clothing store and he will call his vendors, and his employees will say, “I cannot believe he was talking to them like that when something doesn’t go right.” It’s just that he wants it done his way. They also have very strong feelings about, not that there’s a right or wrong way to do it like our type ones, but they have a way to do it, and they want their way to be done. So when it’s not, sometimes they’re comfortable saying, “That’s not right. It’s not how I want it done.”
Dr. Amy Moore:
Got it.
Teri Miller:
My oldest daughter is so, so type eight. I see this in her and it is, yeah, I’ve seen that in her that, okay. So she’s adopted. When she was in a children’s home, she was called bossy. The other girls didn’t like her. She was very set apart. She wasn’t just one of them. She didn’t fit in, in a sense, but as she has grown into a young woman, she’s been able to embrace what we’ve called her, which is, “You’re such a go-getter. You’re so assertive. You’re a spitfire.” That’s always what I say about her, “Brianne, honey, you are such a spitfire.” So she’s been able to embrace that instead of the negative side as a woman, like what you’re saying, and she’s been able to embrace the positive.
Teri Miller:
She now owns her own business and she is very clear about her expectations, and how things need to be done right. She is an amazing business owner. She is an amazing manager for the people that work for her. I think they get annoyed sometimes because she’s very clear and very strong about what she wants, but it’s an incredibly beautiful energy, an Enneagram type, for a woman as she can embrace that and the positivity of it.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. I think it was Dr. Amy that had mentioned or maybe it was you, Teri, about your childhood message and we each have one. For the type eights, it’s that it’s not okay to be vulnerable. So for type eights, they actually are incredibly tender and very big hearted, and the people that are in their inner circle, it will take a lot to get them kicked out. It’ll take a lot to get in, but once you’re in, you’re in. They do have big hearts, but something had happened in childhood like all of us. We all have our own stories, but for eights typically, they felt they had to be strong, they had to be big in order to protect themselves in order to ultimately survive in whatever difficult situation they were faced with in childhood. So that’s where they are, but when they do move to health, they actually dip into their type two energy and become very others-oriented and softer and more vulnerable and willing to get in touch with their own feelings.
Teri Miller:
Well, that’s definitely her story. She had a lot of hard stuff that she overcame and had to be very mature at a very young age. So, yup.
Dr. Amy Moore:
All right. So the last type, type nine is the peacemaker.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. They are the mediator, and just their name suggests, they are striving for peace. They are motivated by outer peace, that those around them are getting along and in harmony and also have this inner peace. So they are running away from conflict, but also running away even deeper than that from being cast out of the group or annihilated from the group because of some sort of conflict. So eights will be out of touch a lot of times with their own feelings, their thoughts, their opinions because they have numbed them out. They don’t want to bring them up because they’re afraid of rocking the boat. They want to go with the flow. So they fear that if they speak up, even something like, “I don’t want to go to that restaurant,” or “I’d rather go here,” and then all the other bigger things in life, they will fall asleep to themselves because they’ve numbed their opinions so much that they tend to get to a point where it’s like, “I don’t even know who I am. What do I want? Where do I want to go for dinner?”
Sarah Wallace:
So the work for the nine is to start even speaking up like, “I would rather go here, pick out our pumpkins from this pumpkin patch than this pumpkin path,” right? It’s just little things that don’t really seem significant, but speaking up and sharing your opinion is really the work for the nine.
Sarah Wallace:
They have so many superpowers. We have this idea of leadership. We’ve talked about the type eight energy, very stereotypical leader, type three, and type nines, this energy doesn’t always get to be thought of as a leader, but they are amazing leaders. It’s just they’re doing it in their own way. They are very inclusive. They are able to live in the gray. So many of us want to see, right or wrong, this or that, black or white, and they’re okay with not knowing. They’re okay with creating space for different opinions and everybody at the table to be hurt.
Sarah Wallace:
The flip side of that sometimes in a leadership position or running a company or whatever it might be is that at some point you have to make a decision. At some point, you have to make a call, and sometimes that can be difficult for the type nines who aren’t sure, “Who I am? What do I want?”
Dr. Amy Moore:
Absolutely. All right. So we need to take a quick break, let Teri read a word from our sponsor, LearningRx, and then when we come back, let’s dig in a little bit more about what this looks in terms of parenting, and maybe some roadblocks that we see in leadership. Let’s just apply this when we come back.
Teri Miller: (reading sponsor ad from LearningRx)
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Dr. Amy Moore:
We’re back talking to Sarah Wallace about the Enneagram. So Sarah, now that we know a little bit about each of the types, you mentioned that there are some common roadblocks that women in leadership can face based on their type that keep them from performing their best. Can you talk about those? Should we just start at type one and go through the list?
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. I’ll try and keep it short like one or two for each one, and then if you want me to just pause and you want to say something, then we’ll just we’ll do that, but I’ll go through it pretty quickly here and then we can talk about it after.
Sarah Wallace:
So the type one we talked about being the perfectionist, and this is the thing that is going to hold our type ones back in any leadership role is the need to be perfect. Sometimes they will actually miss deadlines because a project isn’t perfect enough or they’ll say that they’re going to start something and they won’t put it. They’ll start it, but it’s just so much time and stress and energy goes into perfecting it. As we know, there is nothing that will ever be perfect. Then especially when you’re doing something new, it’s not going to be right. It’s not going to be perfect, but the only way to get there is to get started. So that will be the work for the one to unblock themselves from stepping into that version of who they want to be, that powerful version.
Sarah Wallace:
The type two being the helper, especially in business, I don’t know how much this will resonate with your listeners, but especially if you’re running your own company of any sort or consulting, they love to help. So their content that they put out is a all going to be so helpful, but when it comes to selling their service or selling themselves, it’s going to be very hard for them to say, “Buy for me. I’m open for business,” because they want to be that helper, and that feeling like, “Oh, I don’t want to feel so salesy.”
Sarah Wallace:
Then type three, the achiever, the work for them, well, there’s a couple things. I think just very specific is that sometimes it takes a minute for something to work. So an example that is coming to mind right now is putting ourselves on social media or maybe it’s starting a podcast or starting a blog. Our type threes are going to immediately go to the results, what are the stats, how is it doing. It’s like, “Oh, my gosh. It’s not working. Nope. Didn’t get enough likes, didn’t get enough downloads. This is not working. I’m a failure. Let me start something new.” So just reminding yourself that it takes some time and that you’re not going to see results right away.
Sarah Wallace:
Then the other thing is just to remember, and I think this goes for a couple of us, but especially the type three in any working role, is that you are worthy without doing anything. This is a little bit more deeper, but this is really important for threes to start to realize, and logically, they might understand this, but then in practicality, it’s a very difficult message to actually embody that you are a worthy human being by sitting on your back porch and sipping on coffee and doing a WordPress or I don’t know. What are we? I don’t know how old we are. What do we do? Just reading a magazine or reading a book. You’re still still valuable with being on vacation and not responding to a single email or doing a single project. So that’s just something to remember, and that’s not something that happens quickly. It’s something that you will continue to have to remind yourself of.
Sarah Wallace:
Type four, their challenge is going to be because they want to be creative because they want to be unique, they might get an idea for a business or a new project, but it’s like, “Gosh! Somebody’s already talking about that. There’s 10 other people doing that same thing.” At this point in the world, there’s are not really any, truly one of a kind ideas. It’s going to be putting your unique spin on it, and the way that you say it and the way that you talk about it, there’s still a spot in the marketplace for that idea or that new business with your creative, unique touch to it.
Sarah Wallace:
The type five may hold themselves back from speaking up in a meeting, from starting a business to doing a live or starting a podcast because they’re going to think, “I don’t know everything there is to know yet. What if somebody asked me a question and I didn’t know the answer?” Just to remind yourself that you know enough right now, especially if there’s a person one or two steps behind you, you already know so much more than they do. So get started helping them with what you know now.
Sarah Wallace:
Type six, they’re going to, and we talked about this with Teri, that they’re going to hold themselves back because they’re going to, before they take an action on their idea, on their business, inside a meeting, they’re going to need to know 10 other people’s opinions about this. Really, it’s just, “What do you think?” You can absolutely gather other people’s opinions. There’s a place for that, but ultimately, you are inside your body, you’re inside your brain, and you really do know what’s best for you and what you truly want, so trust that.
Sarah Wallace:
Then for the type sevens, we did talk a little bit about their need for structure. Sevens have an arrow to a one. So I’m always saying dip into that structure routine disciplined energy and put some guardrails on your big ideas because it’s so tragic to have all these ideas, and they’re great ideas, but nobody will ever get to see them or very few people will if you don’t continue on. You don’t have to continue on because that can feel scary to a seven to think like, “Oh, my gosh! If I start this idea, then I have to do it for the rest of my life. If I start this podcast, it has to be forever.” It’s like, “No.” What you can do to channel some of that one energy is just to say, “I’m going to give it everything I can. I’m going to put in the structure. I’m going to put in the routine, and I’m going to do it for 90 days. I’m going to do it for six months. If after that, I still don’t want to do it, then I’ll try something else,” but at least give it a chance to grow its legs.
Sarah Wallace:
Then the type eight, their work is going to be around vulnerability. So as a leader, we talked about how they might come across as intimidating and they might shut down others’ voices and their teams may not feel seen or heard because, “It’s my way or the highway.” So channel that arrow to your two and allow yourself to soften, allow yourself to be vulnerable. Maybe as a business owner or on a podcast, you share a story about a failure or when you’re sitting next to a person on your team, you share about a time that you messed up and make yourself more relatable and open to hearing, open to sharing those times about yourself, and also listening to your team and those around you who might be having a hard time and feel, and see them, and hear them.
Sarah Wallace:
Then lastly, the block for the type nine is just going to be tuning themselves out and not knowing what they want and being on default mode. We talk about there’s that example of you get in the car and then you get home but you forget how you got here. That is the type nine. They are very asleep to themselves in the average health. So waking up and figuring out what do you want, where do you want to go and stepping into that.
Teri Miller:
So good.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Fascinating.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. Everything you said I could, yeah, think of some of my older kids, other family members, dear friends, myself, and just be like, “Check. Yup. Oh, that. Oh, yeah.”
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah, and when you know about other people, too, and even if you don’t know they’re type, but maybe somebody is coming at you with some of that eight aggressive energy, it’s really easy to be like, “Oh, my gosh! They’re so mean. They’re such in a bad mood,” and it’s hard in the moment, but just think like, “Oh, my gosh! I can’t imagine what they’re going through inside to feel like they can’t be soft, to feel like they can’t be tender and vulnerable. That must be so hard.” Your response is going to be so different than if you’re thinking the opposite.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Absolutely. Good advice.
Teri Miller:
Goodness. Okay. So tell our listeners, talk through these different types and how that relates to motherhood, and how that might impact our kids. Again, we can just go real quickly through the different types. Yeah. I think, again, this is super important because our kids have different types, and sometimes the way we are might work really, really well for one child and might drive another child absolutely crazy.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay. So do we want to start with the nines and go backwards for something different?
Dr. Amy Moore:
Yeah. Let’s do that. That’s fun.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay. Let’s switch it up. I know. I always feel bad for nines and eights because I’m like, “You guys always are last.” Okay. So we’ll start with the nine. So as parents, nines are very perceptive, very understanding, able to empathize. They come at problems with humor, and they’re going to be creative thinkers, too, and their kids are typically always going to feel very understood and very supportive. Nines are going to come at them with trying to keep the peace, and where they might run into some challenges as a parent is that they are constantly in conflict counselor mode, which can get exhausting.
Sarah Wallace:
Also, because they’re afraid of conflict, they might struggle with boundaries. I mean, you guys are the experts in this, but I know that kids need some sort of boundaries, some sort of structure. So that’s going to be where the nine will want to lean into, “How can I do this in my way, still adding boundaries, but feeling aligned?”
Dr. Amy Moore:
Well, and let me just say, and maybe they need to learn to teach their children conflict resolution skills so that they’re not the ones always having to jump in and resolve those conflicts in order to keep that peace.
Teri Miller:
So good. Yeah.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. I’ll just see if you want to add anything to some of these because you guys probably have completely different perspectives and insights. So the type eight are going to be leader. They’re leaders and they’re going to be leaders of the family. They’re going to be pretty firm with their children. They’re going to expect them to take personal responsibility and to be tough in the face of challenges, and also to pursue their dreams relentlessly. So what an amazing parent, right?
Sarah Wallace:
They are going to be natural disciplinaries and tend to shy away from vulnerability, which as a child, that can feel maybe suffocating or you’re not allowed to express your emotions, and then you end up with all different issues later on in life. So as a parent, understanding that that might be your natural tendency is to go to discipline or just pull your pants. What’s the saying? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but, really, again, leaning into that tenderness, that vulnerability, that empathy that the two has when you’re approaching a challenge that your child is having.
Sarah Wallace:
Type sevens are going to be really fun parents. They’re going to play games. They’re going to tend to be really come up with creative ideas, pretend. The challenge, though, of a child of a type seven parent is sometimes that just, “Oh, my gosh! I got an idea. Let’s do this,” or “Let’s do this,” can feel overwhelming if your child is not at all that way. So if your child has more like one vibes, that’s going to feel very chaotic and stressful.
Sarah Wallace:
Then similar to the nine, sevens aren’t the best at putting in boundaries and structure, and then especially with a family dynamic where you have a partner at home, sevens don’t want to do the housework. They don’t want to do the cleaning or the cooking, and they’re going to want to be the good cop. So the other parent potentially is going to come to a point where they’re feeling a little resentful because they’re not carrying their weight and, “Why do I always have to be the bad cop?” So be aware of that as you’re a type seven parent.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. Definitely. I can feel the eight and seven in my home.
Sarah Wallace:
So the type six parent is, again, their children will always feel the very supportive, yeah, very safe. The type six parent is going to make sure that they’re going to be compassionate. They’re going to let their children know that, “You can always count on me. I am here for you.” They are hardworking. They are dependable, and they really have a tendency to be parent. They’re very parental, just in general.
Sarah Wallace:
The way that they’re going to just have to be on the lookout for is going overboard in the protection department and not allowing your kids to make mistakes and learn those lessons and potentially even make them feel either overwhelmed by that their own anxiety or project that onto your kids that the world is unsafe. Yes, there needs to be lessons, but there also needs to be, “It’s not always unsafe and there are things …” just that balance, to be aware of that you’re not putting too much of the fear and worry on those.
Sarah Wallace:
The type five parents are going to put an emphasis on exploration and discovery, and maybe even make it a point to travel and expose their children to all kinds of ideas and different ways of thinking. They’re going to be very patient and very curious with their kids, but they can be prone to introversion. Not every five is an introvert, like we were talking about Dr. Amy’s husband, but that’s a commonality with our type fives.
Sarah Wallace:
So understanding that your kids’ social needs might be very different than yours, and so allowing them to be in more social situations, allow that extrovertedness, giving them those opportunities to balance out that even though it might feel uncomfortable for you.
Sarah Wallace:
Type four parent is going to be extremely creative, again, and inventive, and they’re going to give their children a safe place to express themselves. The children of a type four will grow up with a strong appreciation most likely for arts and creative outlets, and have a good grasp on their emotional states and how to discuss them.
Sarah Wallace:
The flip side of that is that sometimes the four parent might emotionally overwhelm their children and that can, especially for those children that don’t share those same characteristics. So just to be aware of that, managing your emotions in front of your kids. Then also, fours can tend to be introverted as well, again, not always, and they are that individualist, so they have this energy with like, “Well, do whatever you want. Just do you,” but there is a place in our lives where we do need to be accepted into a social situation. We do need to be a part of the group. So allowing your kids to be able to thrive and give them experiences in group settings and those social settings, too.
Sarah Wallace:
Is this okay? Do we want to pause?
Teri Miller:
This is awesome.
Dr. Amy Moore:
I think this is great.
Teri Miller:
Perfect.
Dr. Amy Moore:
I’m captivated.
Teri Miller:
Exactly. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore:
I’m sure our listeners are captivated right now, too.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay. Okay. Good, good, good. Then the type three, we talked about those achievers. So they are the natural cheerleaders, the coaches. They’re going to their kids’ events, to their sporting games, and then always push their children to be their best. Their kids are most likely with that efficiency energy that the threes have. Their children are probably going to be organized and pretty responsible and exposed to all kinds of extracurricular activities and be encouraged, again, like the eights to pursue their goals and their visions.
Sarah Wallace:
Now, where this gets tricky sometimes for the children of a three is that they could feel too pushed to succeed, feel the pressure of achievement, especially as kids, right? To have such a full schedule, it can feel exhausting for a kid. So again, just be aware of how you are and the difference, again, like you said, Teri, you might have one kid that that totally works with, but then there might be another one that doesn’t and just being aware of yourself, how you are and how your kids might feel they’re not living up to your expectations in some situations.
Dr. Amy Moore:
My youngest is a three. So at first I thought, “Oh, I’ve created a three,” but when I look at his personality and I look at the choices that he makes, he’s making those choices to fill his schedule. He’s making the choice to excel. I mean, it’s really interesting to watch your spawn take on those same characteristics without you pushing him to do that.
Sarah Wallace:
Oh, that’s such a fun word, spawn.
Teri Miller:
I do see that in your kids, Amy, that everything they do, they do with greatness. I mean, my goodness! It wasn’t just getting in the military and, “I can adapt.” I mean, he was the best. Anything your kids have tried, they don’t just do it mediocre.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Right. They don’t settle for good enough.
Teri Miller:
Right. They’re the best at what they do, but I do want to venture to say that I see in you that parenting style, but then you also have this unique ability to then go, “Hey, that’s okay. You don’t have to take that class,” that you really, you have a great way of also backing off so that I don’t see your kids being paralyzed with having to be the best.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Right. Well, I’m a four wing, so I’m absolutely about you do you.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. It’s pretty cool.
Sarah Wallace:
You’re probably in a really healthy place emotionally, and that’s somebody who was a type three that maybe hadn’t done the work, the self-care, the learning, the studying, might be more that way, but ironically, the more that you grow, the less your type you look like.
Teri Miller:
Huh. Interesting. Well, yeah, I think you’re a great mom.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Well, thank you, Teri.
Teri Miller:
I admire her, listeners. You can tell. I admire her.
Dr. Amy Moore:
All right. The twos.
Sarah Wallace:
Okay. The twos, the helper parent. So they are, again, their children are going to feel very supported. They are very positive reinforcers. Their children are going to feel very loved and very nurtured and have everything that they need. Teri already talked about this. So the challenge for the type two parent is going to be at some point stepping away and letting their children step out on their own.
Sarah Wallace:
Then we’ve seen maybe those, I don’t know, hallmark movies or movies on Netflix where it’s like empty nesters, and now the mother doesn’t know what to do with herself because she’s neglected her own needs and her own wants for so long. So eventually, though, especially, when you do have younger children and they rely on you for more, that type two parent, if they’re not paying attention to themselves, can also experience burnout and frustration.
Sarah Wallace:
So it is important. We talk about self care. It gets thrown around a lot, but especially for our type two parents out there, this is real advice. This is advice to take to heart. Otherwise, it’s hard to show up for your family, for your kids when you yourself are burnt out and feel tired.
Teri Miller:
Yeah, absolutely or you can just be really, really crazy like I am and never … No, no, I was going to say never be an empty nester because you have nine kids. So I mean, I have a 27-year-old and a nine-year-old and so-
Dr. Amy Moore:
So you always have somebody to help. In Teri’s defense, Teri is very good at self-care and taking a break, and she’s an advocate for mommy sabbaticals and momcations. So I think that she recognizes that need.
Teri Miller:
You are kind. I don’t know that I’m very good, but I try. I really strive for it. Yeah.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. Just to have the awareness that, “That is important and that’s something I need to do,” you’re already ahead of the game. Yeah.
Teri Miller:
Okay. So type one.
Sarah Wallace:
Then type one as a parenting, they are the perfectionist and they will have very high expectations for their children. They will create a very secure environment with very clear boundaries and healthy discipline, but they might struggle a little bit with spontaneity and temporary disorder or mess, which is inevitable with kids. They can sometimes, too, get a little judgey because they have that right or wrong, good or bad, this black and white thinking with other families or how other parents are raising, and then also even with their own children.
Sarah Wallace:
So allowing fun and channeling. Ones have an arrow to a seven. So channel some of those seven vibes and bring in the spontaneity and allow yourself to not always have the structure and to be okay and nest sometimes. That will inevitably come up in all areas, whether you have children or not.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. That’s good. Hey, I want to real quick mention, I know we have gotten so long, but this is just so fascinating. I want to really quickly mention that I think it’s super valuable also for our listeners to understand the idea of the wing because I think … I’m going to just mention two people in my family. Like I mentioned, my oldest daughter is such a Spitfire and she is very much, I see that eight energy in her. Then what I see in her as a parent, because I have three grandsons, she has three precious little boys, so she is an eight, wing nine.
Teri Miller:
So there’s a lot of peacemaker in her. She has a lot of empathy. Her biological family, she’s had so much struggles and pain with, but she has a lot of forgiveness and just this incredible mix because of her wing.
Teri Miller:
Then I have another family that I really see as an eight, wing seven. As a parent, they are completely different even though I would say they both have the primary Enneagram energy as Enneagram eight. Eight, wing nine as a parent is so different than eight, wing seven. Talk just real briefly, not every single category, but tell us a little more about that wing aspect.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. It definitely influences how you show up. So there’s the wings that will influence, and then there’s also something called natural instincts or subtypes where you have your type, and then when you dig in even deeper, you’re going to be a self-preservation eight in this case or a social eight or a sexual or one-to-one eight, and each three of those have different energies.
Sarah Wallace:
So you can imagine, and hopefully this isn’t overcomplicating things, but let’s say you’re a social eight, wing seven, you are going to look very different from a self-preservation eight, wing nine. So that’s where some of that … The Enneagram really is a self-discovery process. Nobody can tell you what your type is. It’s you taking the quizzes, reading, reflecting, and sometimes it can get a little confusing because it’s like, “Well, I don’t do this, but I do this.”
Sarah Wallace:
Sometimes people really resonate with a wing and sometimes they don’t, so take it or leave it, but the wings I have found to be very helpful in just helping me understand how I’m going to show up and, again, what’s important to me, also where I might struggle, why am I having these same issues as a seven, wing six, right?
Sarah Wallace:
So it can be helpful, and that’s the beauty of the Enneagram is once you understand your core motive that comes through your core type, then you can start learning about the wings. You can start learning about those natural instincts and all the other pieces of the Enneagram that just give you more information and clues about yourself.
Teri Miller:
So good. There’s just so much. We could go on and on, but I know it’s been too long.
Dr. Amy Moore:
My sweet three, wing two just brought me coffee from my favorite coffee shop.
Teri Miller:
Thank you, Evan.
Dr. Amy Moore:
All right. Now that we’ve got and everybody excited about this whole Enneagram typing, tell our listeners how they can find out what their type is and what to do once they figure it out.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah. Well there’s a book called The Road Back To You by Suzanne Stabile, and she recommends learning about all the types, just reading the types and typing that way. There is a quiz, a very short quiz through Truity, and I’ll send you that link if you want to put that in your show notes, and that’ll give you back some results. I always say don’t get married to any type of quiz that you take, especially in the beginning to the results because it’s just giving you clues. At that point, it’s helping you eliminate more so than narrow it down to the one that you are.
Sarah Wallace:
Then when you get back your results or when you start to think or even listening today, “Oh, my gosh! There were two, three, four maybe types that really resonated with me,” blogs, podcasts, books, there’s no shortage of information out there to start studying yourself. We want to know right away, “Well, what am I? What am I?”
Sarah Wallace:
The beauty with that process is that it’s part of the process. You are learning about yourself. You are asking yourself questions that you have never asked before. You are thinking about things when it comes to how you handle situations that you maybe have never thought about before. So however you get to your type, however long it takes, some people know right away. Usually, that’s our fives and our eights tend to be like, “Yup, that’s me. Can’t be any other type,” and then there’s others that they might think, “Oh, I think I’m this type,” and then realize, “Gosh! This just isn’t resonating.” So that’s okay. Don’t get married. Be open to it being something different, but eventually, there will be a moment.
Sarah Wallace:
I don’t know if you guys want to talk about that for yourself, but where it’s like, “Oh, my gosh! I can’t be anything else.” The one practical tip that I’ll give you for getting to that point maybe a little bit quicker is to look at what they call arrows on the Enneagram, what number you go to in stress, and what number you go to in health, and try those on, and see which ones feel most relevant. I get that feedback a lot from clients that when they started exploring those arrows, they realize, “Oh, there’s no other number that I could be except for this type,” based on that.
Teri Miller:
Yeah. Absolutely. I had similar experience.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Yup. All right. So you have a podcast. You have coaching services. Tell our listeners about that.
Sarah Wallace:
Yeah, and just speaking of your type, I do have a specific guide for your listeners. It’s called How to Tell What Type You Are, and it’s at sarahlynnco.com/brainy moms. So I’ll send you that link. Then I do have a podcast called Enneagram MBA, and we really, there’s all like we’ve talked about today, parenting, romantic relationships, workplace leadership, all kinds of ways that you can apply the Enneagram.
Sarah Wallace:
For the most part on my podcast, we’re hearing from other leaders, business owners in how they approach work based on their types. So they’re always sharing about what it’s like to be that type and then sharing their expertise when it comes to getting visible in the workplace, with your business, marketing, sales, those kind of topics. So I would love to have your listeners as listeners as well if that feels a fun topic.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Absolutely.
Teri Miller:
I want to point out, listeners, she has a fantastic blog that’s Leadership Style by Enneagram Type that I just really was a huge fan of, just goes through each type, really describes, goes through those core things, your woundings. It really helps you figure everything out. She’s got that written out and she also has a video within that same blog. So I would recommend that you check out that page on her blog on her website, Sarah Lynn Co. Am I getting it? Sarahlynnco.com blog and it’s Leadership Style By Enneagram Type. Great one to check
Sarah Wallace:
Oh, thank you for pointing that out. Yeah, that’s a good place to start.
Dr. Amy Moore:
Awesome. So we are out of time and need to wrap up, but this was a super informative and really fun conversation. So we just want to thank our guest today, Sarah Wallace, for just digging into the Enneagram with us. Listeners, I hope that you got some insights and some inspiration and are ready to go work on self-discovery and self-awareness using the Enneagram as your map.
Dr. Amy Moore:
So if you’d to connect with Sarah, we will put her social media handles and a link to her website, sarahlynnco.com, in the show notes. She’s also offering 20% off a Know Your Number Typing and Next Steps coaching session just for Brainy Moms listeners. She mentioned that link, too, sarahlynnco.com/brainymoms, to take advantage of that special offer.
Dr. Amy Moore:
So thank you so much for listening today. If you liked our show, we would love it if you would leave us a five-star rating and review on Apple podcasts. If you’d rather watch us, we are on YouTube. You can follow us on social media, @TheBrainyMoms. So look, until next time. We know that you’re busy moms and we’re busy moms, so we are out.
Teri Miller:
See ya.
Connect with Sarah
Website: https://www.sarahlynnco.com/
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Facebook: Sarah Wallace (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=6825602 )
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahlynnwallace/
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