Shame-Free Money Management for the Whole Family with guest Lindsey Konchar

About this Episode

Want to help your whole family make financial decisions and manage their money in a shame-free way? On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, discover how to transform your relationship with money as financial therapist Lindsey Konchar joins Sandy for a compelling discussion into the world of money management for the whole family. Lindsey skillfully combines her training and expertise in behavioral therapy with financial education, reshaping how individuals and families handle finances. From her personal experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic and postpartum anxiety, Lindsey found her true calling in financial therapy, helping others understand and change their deeply ingrained “money personalities” and scripts formed in childhood. This enlightening episode promises to offer you insights into developing healthier financial habits and understanding your “money story.”

Lindsey sheds light on the common patterns of financial avoidance and miscommunication in families, particularly prevalent among couples. We explore how societal expectations and personal money scripts can lead to tensions, and how finding common ground can facilitate more effective financial discussions. Lindsey provides actionable advice on aligning your spending with personal priorities and engaging in financial self-care practices. Her unique perspective highlights the power of approaching money matters with respect and vulnerability, paving the way for financial harmony.

Empowering the next generation with financial literacy is crucial, and Lindsey offers innovative strategies to involve children and teens in money management. Learn about her “four labeled buckets” method for young kids and how she encourages teens to take charge of their financial futures through practices like opening custodial Roth IRAs. By fostering open and honest financial conversations within families, Lindsey emphasizes the importance of building a foundation for financial independence and well-being. Tune in to gain practical tips and inspiration from financial therapist Lindsey Konchar, aiming to reshape your family’s financial future and enrich your financial mindset.

About Lindsey Konchar

Lindsey is your favorite financial therapist who helps you feel excited about money. And yes, she says that is possible. Money isn’t just a math problem. There’s always so much more to the equation, Merging behavioral therapy and financial education, Lindsey says she can help you live your dream life. She holds an undergraduate degree in psychology and a Master’s in Social Work. She’s currently licensed in Minnesota as a Licensed Graduate Social Worker (LGSW) and she is a Certified Financial Social Worker and Coach.

Connect with Lindsey

Website: https://financialselfcareblog.com/financial-therapy/

IG: @financialtherapistlindsey

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Read the transcript for this episode:

Dr. Amy Moore: 0:30
Hi, smart moms and dads. We’re so excited to have you join us for another episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, brought to you today by LearningRx Brain Training Centers. I’m Dr. Amy Moore and I’m excited to tell you about today’s episode, hosted solo by my co-host, Sandy Zamalis. Today, Sandy interviewed Lindsey Konchar. Lindsey is your favorite financial therapist here to help you feel excited about money. And yes, she says that is possible. Money isn’t just a math problem. There’s always so much more to the equation, Merging behavioral therapy and financial education. Lindsey says she can help you live your dream life. So sit back and listen to the conversation between Sandy and Lindsey on a topic we all need to be a little smarter about, especially when it comes to helping our kids with financial literacy and our teens be a little smarter about money themselves. Here we go Welcome, Thank you so glad you’re here.

Lindsey Konchar: 1:32
I am so excited.

Sandy Zamalis: 1:35
Well, we’re going to jump right on in, if that’s okay with you. We don’t want to waste any conversation time.

Lindsey Konchar: 1:40
I love it.

Sandy Zamalis: 1:41
Yes, let’s do it. Let’s get started by having you tell our listeners how you got into the financial space, because you didn’t start off there right.

Lindsey Konchar: 1:51
I did not start off there. That is correct, yes, there, right, I did not start off there. That is correct, yes. So I have been a licensed therapist for well, since 2019. And at that time I was working, you know, in a clinic and it was great. And then COVID happened, and you know all the things, and I also had a baby during COVID, and so that was my introduction into motherhood, which I don’t recommend having a baby in a pandemic, but life is such and at that time I went through it with becoming a mom.

Lindsey Konchar: 2:26
I was really experiencing a lot of postpartum anxiety and all sorts of symptoms that came with that, and I think a lot of it related to the fact that I really did miss my career. Like, I loved being a social worker, I loved doing outpatient therapy, I loved a lot of it, but I also loved being home with my baby, and so, as with many women now, we want it all and I wanted to figure out how to make that happen and I started dabbling in, you know, all sorts of things from working at home and how I could kind of build out this laptop, life and whatnot. And in 2022, I was actually at a self-development conference, a professional development conference and I had this very clear moment where I was like I want to help people with their money, but I’m a therapist who is going to listen to me and fast forward that was in October 2022. And fast forward to April 2023,. I was listening to an audiobook, totally unrelated to any of this stuff, and the author said the words financial therapist and I, quite literally, was on my street, I paused the book, I parked on my driveway and I came like flying through the door and my husband was like what is going on? Are you okay? And I was like I need to Google something like right now. And I did.

Lindsey Konchar: 3:47
And it turns out, because I hold my MSW, that I did qualify for the certifications of becoming a financial therapist, and so we have a 48-hour rule in our house and I waited the 48 hours, but we were both like, yeah, that feels very aligned and I really just dove straight in. I got certified by the end of May and I haven’t looked back, and so a big part of our story as well is on the you know, the personal side of things. My husband and I had been on our own self-care journey already for years, and so it just you know, when they say that, like you look back and all the dots start to connect. That was kind of the moment for us and, like I said, I’ve been doing that now for almost coming up on two years and it’s been awesome.

Sandy Zamalis: 4:34
I love those kind of serendipitous encounters, right when you’re, just like that’s it. That’s the thing.

Sandy Zamalis: 4:41
That’s how I got involved in.

Sandy Zamalis: 4:43
I’m a cognitive therapist, so that’s how I got involved in cognitive training. I was on a teacher track and found this and was like, nope, I need to divert.

Sandy Zamalis: 4:52
And it’s hard to divert, but when you do it feels so good. Yeah Well, we’re so glad you’re here to talk about money, because I don’t know why it isn’t more of a money. I think does involve therapy, because I love your premise that there’s so much emotion tied to money and we all have different I would say money personalities. We’ve all grown up differently with money, so let’s start there. How do you start to understand your own personal relationship with money?

Lindsey Konchar: 5:25
Such a good question. What I think I wish so many people understood that is really not talked about is your money. Habits are actually established by the time you are 10 years old. There’s research out of the University of Michigan about this and so when you start to understand that piece like that is very young. So so much of your upbringing actually has to do with how you are presenting with money now and the relationship that you have with it.

Lindsey Konchar: 5:53
Now, the beautiful thing about this and the work that I do is there is so much hope in it because habits can, of course, be changed. So if somebody heard that and was like I’m messed up for life, you know like that is not the case. We can change habits, which is so amazing. But when you think about that, you start leaning into like, what did I learn about money when I was growing up? What did I not learn, and also what was explicit and what was implicit. Right, we call this a money story and for me, my parents fought about money all the time, like anytime money was being talked about, it was being fought about, and so I internalized that for a very long time is like money is bad. Money creates these terrible, scary conversations and arguments and then fast forward to when I was 16, I actually moved into a friend’s house. Mom thought I was living at dad’s, dad thought I was living at mom’s. I was at my friend’s house and her parents were still happily together. At this point my parents had already been divorced, money being the cause of their divorce. And having that different viewpoint, having that different lens into like wait, they do openly talk about money in front of us, like it wasn’t not like extensively, but it was just like, oh wait, there’s another way. And it felt different, like I knew if I spilled my juice it wasn’t going to be like World War III, it was. It was just like oh wait, there’s another way. And it felt different. I knew if I spilled my juice it wasn’t going to be like World War III, it was going to be like we’ll get the carpet clean or we’ll get a new rug or whatever. And I just realized like wow, there is a different way.

Lindsey Konchar: 7:30
And I was really lucky to have that experience early on. I always say it’s like my own version of Rich Dad, poor Dad, which is kind of a controversial book. So that’s not what I, that’s not what I recommend people start with reading. But the premise is there, right Of like. I really did have these two viewpoints into like what it could do for you, and so that was really a big part. So when I met my now husband, I was 24 and I was like, look, buddy, we got to talk about money in this relationship because right and so, and so we started doing that work and I had habits that I needed to change, and that’s true for anybody, and also, you know, same with my husband, like he saw one thing I is really important to take stock of where did you come from? What have you learned and was that helpful or not?

Sandy Zamalis: 8:21
That was really smart, because I think money is like one of the top five reasons that marriages don’t make it, so catching that on the front end was just amazingly wise of you. Let’s talk about from that perspective. What do you think some of the emotional barriers that people, what are some of those emotional barriers that people bring to the table?

Lindsey Konchar: 8:47
Undoubtedly with women specifically, I would say it’s avoidance. I see that all the time and avoidance can look a couple different ways. Hands raised, you’re like help me, help me. And that avoidance can come from a couple different things. Right Is one.

Lindsey Konchar: 9:02
It’s going back to those money scripts that you might hold deep down and that could be like if you heard the message money doesn’t grow on trees, or we can’t afford this, or money is the root of all evil, like that sends these messages to our brains that, like now, you might be actually like pushing money away because it might signify to you, if you have too much money and you’re getting too rich, maybe you’re now a greedy person and greedy people are bad people, right.

Lindsey Konchar: 9:28
So there’s this like definite pattern that we can kind of follow. For me, I often heard you know we can’t afford that, and it would be like a $10 toy that I was asking for and yet my parents would come home with, like I don’t know, a $300 grill the next day and I’d be like, wait a second, you can afford that, but we can’t. Like the mixed messages are real right, and so I think examining that a little bit can be helpful. Now, I’m not a inner child deep working therapist. I’m a solutions-focused brief therapist, so I think it’s important to examine it, but that I’m very quickly like, okay, and let’s change it.

Sandy Zamalis: 10:05
But I do think it can be like figured out by patterns that you’re currently in so it’s not like it takes a deep dive.

Lindsey Konchar: 10:12
No, totally You’re absolutely right, you’re absolutely right. And so just you know, being able to kind of extract some of that of like oh, that could explain why I’m doing this avoidance stuff, why I’m not opening the emails that say you know, bill, or why my mail is just piled up in the corner and not looking at that or you know doing the thing. I quite literally had a client that was like I would check my bank accounts. She would cover her eyes with their hands and just kind of peek out her fingers. She literally was that averted from looking at her stuff.

Lindsey Konchar: 10:43
So I think that’s a really really common one that I, like I said, primarily with women, but sometimes men as well, and on the flip side, with men, they are really pushed into that quote unquote provider role and not all of them want to identify with that role and this is a huge generalization. But I do see this often, especially, like I said, in my couple’s work, that they feel this pressure, this obligation to be the one doing the finances, to be the one looking at all the numbers, and some of them are like this is my worst nightmare, like this is my husband’s worst nightmare, right, Like he’s, like I do not want to look at the numbers and that’s okay, but we have to really examine, like, where is that coming from? Is that like a bigger macro level? Is that self-induced? Probably a little bit of both, and so, yeah, we can kind of look at each and everyone is unique in this, but those are definitely some through lines that I see in the work that I do.

Sandy Zamalis: 11:37
Yeah, what do you think are some of the biggest miscommunications that couples have about money that maybe our listeners could really use in their day to day?

Lindsey Konchar: 11:57
in their day-to-day. I often see that one partner is an avoider and the other partner is maybe what I would call like an optimizer, right, and then they marry each other, and it’s always like that. And so the optimizer is the one who’s like I’m in the spreadsheet, I like love this stuff, like why can’t you just come over here and look at the spreadsheet and understand what I’m talking about, right? And the avoider is like warning signs all over. This is scary.

Lindsey Konchar: 12:14
You know like they’re like please don’t talk to me about it. And that one who might be like the optimizer, let’s say, is feeling like they’re really carrying the team of the partnership and they don’t really necessarily want to be the one that’s like doing all of it. Or maybe the permission grantor, like the avoider, is the one coming to can we afford this? And then the other person has to give permission and like who wants that with their partner? You know, like I don’t. I certainly don’t want to go to my partner and say like hi, can I afford my massage? Like I want to have like an equitable conversation about it. That’s like hey, does this feel right for us? Or whatever that looks like. And so it is really interesting talking with couples.

Lindsey Konchar: 12:57
I love the couples work that I do because of the dynamics and who’s played what role, because guaranteed that optimizer oftentimes doesn’t feel like they are really contributing to that. They’re like I’m just begging, you know, my partner to come on board with me and I’m like well, how are you approaching that conversation? Are you understanding why the avoider is feeling the avoidance that they are? And we break down some of that because what’s happening is that optimizer is like this is my way. This is the right way, and the truth is, the avoider is probably not receiving that very well because their brain is not understanding it the way to optimize. So we need to find common ground, and so that is a really common scenario that I see.

Sandy Zamalis: 13:41
I have a friend who she always categorizes it as pessimistic and she would say her husband’s a flyer I guess that’s like a term that’s out there, meaning he doesn’t really think. I don’t know that avoiding is really the issue, it’s just doesn’t really think about it, like it doesn’t worry about it, doesn’t stress about it, it just kind of flies and goes where.

Sandy Zamalis: 14:04
She’s very security driven. So, like for her it’s really important to know those numbers and to spell it all out. And I need to share one of your posts with her because it cracks me up. But you had a post that said you know how do you blow $10,000 a year and it was like $26 a day or something like that, and she would love that. Like it’s that kind of nitten, gritty kind of detail stuff that just blows your mind when you like do the math it truly is.

Lindsey Konchar: 14:34
Yeah, oh my gosh, that real. It has like 14 million views on it, like that’s crazy man is about it and so many of the commenters were like, wow, I really didn’t want that math to be real. But it’s real.

Sandy Zamalis: 14:45
Yeah, it’s not, it doesn’t take that much well, you think about it like that’s your lunch anymore, like if you go out to eat for lunch at work. That’s 10 grand a year. That’s crazy to think about it that way. Yeah, definitely mind blowing. It’s not a fun math.

Lindsey Konchar: 15:03
Well, here’s the deal On the other side of it. Here’s what I will say about. It is I am not the person ever to be like. You should not be going out to lunch every day because it’s $10,000. My angle is like if that’s moving the needle for you, do it. If you are like driven by convenience I have two toddlers I am like give me all the convenience in the world, I will accept it open, you know, open handedly, I don’t know.

Lindsey Konchar: 15:30
But there are phases of life where we’re like okay, but what else could that money be doing for you? Right. And so sometimes you truly are like no, the $27 is so worth it for lunch today. And other times you’re like actually I have this bigger goal to do something with my family or with my friends or whatever that is. And you’re like actually, I would rather put that money towards savings, I would rather do something different with that. And that’s okay, right.

Lindsey Konchar: 15:55
But it really comes down to and this is true for individuals and it is true for couples just knowing what your priorities are, not what social media is telling you. Your priority should be not what your parents have ingrained deeply in you, that your priority should be not what your parents have you know, ingrained deeply in you, that your priorities should be nothing like that, like we need to really take time to turn inward and say like, no, this is what I’m prioritizing and this is how it’s going to be reflected in my spending, so in my bank statements and in my calendar. Right, your time is important and I want to see this stuff in your calendar.

Sandy Zamalis: 16:30
I love that you put it that way, because it’s not, it’s just an awareness, like, just be aware that that’s what’s happening, right. And if you’ve got like a big spend or something comes up and you’re thinking, gosh, how am I going to afford that? Like, if you think I cannot eat lunch every, you know I cannot eat lunch out, I could save money in that regard and I maybe could save the money I need to do that thing that I don’t think that I can afford in this moment. It’s all those little things. It’s a death by a thousand cuts, right.

Lindsey Konchar: 17:02
Truly it really is, and because it’s so easy nowadays to spend money I mean literally two clicks with a thumb and you have a package at your door in two days like it truly is almost like magic and it’s designed that way. So actually it takes more brainpower to not to click your way into financial disparity. So I think it’s really important to put intentionality back into our finances and again making those very intentional, very mindful decisions of like it is okay, I love spending money, I have no problem spending money, but it’s because it’s on the things that do bring up that baseline level of happiness versus something like I just don’t want to get off the couch. I’m going to door dash something to my door and pay $12 in a convenience fee and blah, blah, blah. Right, like I. That’s not like to me. That doesn’t actually.

Lindsey Konchar: 17:55
I know I said I love convenience, and I do in many ways, but that’s not the convenience that I want to spend my money on, right, right. And so again, some like I’m not shaming anybody who wants to door dash, but is that really aligned with your priorities right now? And if the answer is yes, by all means. If the answer is no, then don’t do it, you know.

Sandy Zamalis: 18:15
Yeah, so how do you start that conversation with your spouse? How?

Lindsey Konchar: 18:21
do you get on the same page? Great, great, great question. Uh, so many couples have never had just like a positive, healthy interaction around money Because, as I said, one person is usually feeling anxious, there’s a lot of defensiveness that’s coming up or it’s done in like you spent how much on the credit card this month, and so what I ended up doing one day with this. This is what we did in our house. We had a really, and we had already done a lot of this work, but I think it’s a really good starting place for couples. We had a really and we had already done a lot of this work, but I think it’s a really good starting place for couples. Is we had a really numbers heavy money date.

Lindsey Konchar: 18:57
It was in November, a couple of years back, and my husband was just like, oh my God, like you know, like he was just kind of dragging and I was like I know, but this is a really important thing. We got through it, it was great. And then the ice. But I said the next money date we have we’re not going to get into the spreadsheet or not at all. And we didn’t. What I did instead Now, this is not for every couple, but I, but I, but I think it’s important to hear that instead, I told him I’m going to go to the gas station, I’m going to get like $30 worth of scratch offs and I want you to start thinking about what would you do if we win $10,000?, what would you do if we win $100,000?

Lindsey Konchar: 19:37
And what would you do if we won a million dollars? And we did that and we had a really lovely date. He poured me my wine, I poured him his bourbon, the kids were in bed and we just dreamt together, and I think couples forget that that’s. And it sparked a really fun conversation between us. Now, do you need to actually gamble to do this activity? No, so a lot of people are like wait, she’s a financial therapist telling me to gamble. Ok, red flag.

Lindsey Konchar: 20:05
But what I will say is like it did it, it created like this really fun.

Lindsey Konchar: 20:09
And my husband is like a big hunter, like burly guy, and he was like I would vacation in Greece if we could go anywhere, and I my jaw was on the floor like even after being together for 10 years, I was like what you know?

Lindsey Konchar: 20:21
So it just it was fun. And then we did our little scratch off thing. We won zero dollars but I’m like 30 bucks for a date night and we had super good conversation and it was all money driven, like it truly was. And so I think if you can just really purposefully make a conversation around money that isn’t strewn with negativity, see where your priorities are, like what you know, if you won $10,000, maybe your spouse was like I would pay off all of our debt and maybe you’re like I would take a vacation and you guys can talk about like what you know, if you won $10,000, maybe your spouse was like I would pay off all of our debt and maybe you’re like I would take a vacation and you guys can talk about like well, what should we actually do? It just creates like a nice, a nice entry into that, into that conversation.

Sandy Zamalis: 21:04
How do you navigate financial power dynamics that might come into play?

Lindsey Konchar: 21:12
That one can be tricky.

Lindsey Konchar: 21:13
It depends on the person’s personality.

Lindsey Konchar: 21:16
I have had a couple couples who you know if and this is in a heterosexual relationship typically that I see this dynamic that if the male is providing more financially, that if the male is providing more financially, sometimes I see that there is a power struggle there where he almost feels entitled to like it’s his money and we kind of have to do a hard reset because in that specific dynamic I will, you know, kind of deconstruct some of that thinking of like yeah, when you were single 10 years ago, 20 years ago, whatever it is, you would have done things differently with your money and also you wouldn’t have had this beautiful partner who’s been able to provide other things for you in your life, like support and love and encouragement and maybe household duties and familial like right, like so in like the traditional way.

Lindsey Konchar: 22:10
But it’s a lot of re-educating, deconstructing some of those really deep-seated beliefs, and it is a tricky one because they are very, very deep in there. So it’s peeling back a lot of layers, but I’m happy to report that that it’s. It is very doable and it’s just kind of working through some of like what is each partner able to bring to the table. And really, how are we talking to each other about some of that stuff, right?

Sandy Zamalis: 22:39
Yeah, when you work with families, are you working to help them get out of debt, kind of hit some of those big hurdles that are keeping them from having peace and safety in the home in terms of, like, financial safety?

Lindsey Konchar: 22:55
Totally. Yeah, I kind of run the whole gamut on what I do. Some of it is simply just around education, where people are like I have money and I just don’t even know what to do with it and I’m like, well, let’s make a plan. Other people are like I have debt, or I’ve been in cycles of debt right where they’re able to kind of claw themselves out, but then they’re right back in it and they’re like what am I doing wrong? And so just recalibrating some of that stuff.

Lindsey Konchar: 23:20
Certainly we make what’s called a good planner so get out of debt planner. And actually I have an entire intentional spending planner that is available on Etsy. It’s the same one I use in my household and with all my clients and it’s really just about how are we organizing our money? How is it flowing through our household? What systems do we need to have in place? How can we have money dates that are really productive and efficient and fun, and looking at all of those things together.

Lindsey Konchar: 23:49
And then we do talk about wealth management stuff where I’m just educating on like what are the options? I’m certainly not an account manager, I’m not holding any of that stuff, but that’s you know. It’s important to know who’s on your financial team and what you are paying them and we don’t that’s kind of into the weeds. And what you are paying them and we don’t that’s kind of into the weeds. But financial advisors are typically taking a bigger percentage than what people might not know. And so we look at some of that together and say, like, is that where your financial priorities are aligned? Do you want to be paying a financial advisor this much, or do we want to maybe reevaluate and do something a little differently? And so we’re just talking about all of that kind of stuff.

Sandy Zamalis: 24:32
It is estimated that there are over 6 million children in the US diagnosed with ADHD. Most children diagnosed with ADHD have a cluster of weak cognitive skills that we all rely on for focusing and staying on task, Skills like working memory, long-term memory and processing speed. At LearningRx, we create a one-on-one brain training program that’s tailored to help address the root cause of your child’s biggest challenges. Visit LearningRxcom to learn how we’re helping kids and teens with ADHD significantly improve their cognitive skills. Get started at LearningRxcom or head over to our show notes for links for more helpful resources, including some free brain training exercises you can try at home. So I love how you kind of term it financial self-care, just really thinking about it as self-care. So let’s start there. Where do you begin to really kind of understand financial self-care?

Lindsey Konchar: 25:30
Well, it’s just, it’s a really a mindset shift that we’re making, right, because so many people self-care has become a bit of a buzzword lately and truly big conglomerates have really taken a hold of that and been like self-care, you need this, self-care, you need that. And it’s just like been branded into this whole idea of like you need all these things to care for yourself. And the truth is, all of those things are fine and dandy, like I said earlier, like I love getting massages and I like knowing how I’m paying for that massage, because if I’m in that massage having tension reliefs and all that stuff, and then I come home and 20 minutes later I’m financially stressed because I don’t know what’s happening with my money, well, it didn’t really do a whole lot, right? And so I like to think of it as like taking care of yourself by taking care of your money, knowing how you’re paying for this stuff, having a clear plan, having clear priorities and then using your money accordingly to really live a fulfilled life for today and saving for tomorrow. And so, yes, of course, there are multitude of things we can do, and financial self-care is a big broad thing, because there are little things like I call them micro barriers that we can do to kind of put in place and get a jumpstart. But then there’s, like that deeper stuff that we’re getting into about.

Lindsey Konchar: 26:47
Like, I work with a lot of women who have a lot of self-worth you know concerns, and so they’re really buying stuff to try to increase their self-esteem, to increase that self-worth. And we deconstruct some of that Like why are you feeling this way? Why is you know? Why are you getting your hair done and your nails done and Botox and all this stuff? Because you’re not feeling good enough in your own skin? Let’s talk about a little bit of that. And what do we really want to put our money to? And some of it’s, again, totally fine if you have the finances to afford that, but if you’re putting yourself in debt to do that, then we need to look at how to reconstruct some of that. So there’s a whole mess of things that go into financial self-care, but it really boils down to living that fulfilled life, having that intentionality in your money, so you are truly taking care of yourself.

Sandy Zamalis: 27:41
Your recent podcast episode about the Enneagram and money styles I really enjoyed because I’m a nine okay yeah, and I was like you’d write it.

Sandy Zamalis: 27:54
I had, of course I had to wait because nine is at the end of the podcast. You went through the whole list but um, I, uh, it’s like in our family, for example, I’m definitely I wouldn’t say again, I’m the avoider probably. I kind of identify more with that flyer personality. I just don’t stress about it. I’m happy to follow someone else’s rules about it. It doesn’t cause me stress unless I’m in charge, like if I’m in charge and I have to figure that stuff out, definitely.

Sandy Zamalis: 28:22
But my husband loves that stuff. He’s like you, he just eats that stuff up. So I let him kind of run the show and he’s definitely an envelope thinker, like our whole marriage. That was kind of like his way of saying okay, yes, you can do, you know whatever you need to do, but it has to come out of this envelope. You can’t touch this envelope, the envelopes. You can’t trade in the envelopes, you can’t steal from this envelope to offset another envelope, and we do that all digitally. But it’s just really funny to me because I feel like one of the biggest hurdles, looking at, for example, my kids, it’s just that lack of savings that a lot of our you know a lot of families have, a lot of our young people have. Life today is just really expensive. So having that envelope I mean that’s, my kids grew up with envelopes.

Lindsey Konchar: 29:22
I’d like to know what trauma we’ve given them. Oh my gosh, I don’t think so at all. Look, here’s the thing. I’m like, as long as you are having solid conversations with your kids about money at all, they’re already light years ahead, right, whether or not you’re doing it the right way or the wrong. Like, you know your kids and you know the style that’s worked for you and your husband, and you’re over there being a nine, you’re like I’m just happy to keep the peace, like I’m good, right and so.

Lindsey Konchar: 29:46
But no, I think, even having that introduction into and same with, like the language thing that I was talking about right is I’m never, ever going to tell my kids that we can’t afford something, because the truth is we could afford it, right? I know that it’s about whether or not we want to pay for the thing. Are we prioritizing the thing? So if we’re at the store and my daughter’s like mommy, I want this Barbie dress thing, I’m like honey, we’re not prioritizing that right now because and I’ll explain to her right now, we’ve decided as a family we want to go down to Texas and visit our in-laws. So that’s what we’re prioritizing right now. And then there’s other times that we go to the store and they ask for something, and I’m like, yeah, let’s prioritize that today.

Lindsey Konchar: 30:29
And so understanding that the power actually comes back to them. It’s not in anybody else’s hands, the money doesn’t have power over us. We actually get to decide where our dollars are going to be spent. And to your point about the saving stuff that is, it does get really tricky. And so for me, with my kids, tricky. And so for me, with my kids, I’m like I would rather them make $50 mistakes now in their youth than I would make that. You know, I don’t want them to make $50,000 mistakes later on. And so money mistakes are going to happen. That is okay. They’re going to choose to spend a little bit more than save right now because it’s more instantly gratifying, you know, and and some of that is just the the conversations that we’re willing to have with whether it’s more instantly gratifying, you know, and some of that is just the conversations that we’re willing to have with, whether it’s with ourselves, our partners, our kids it’s all really important to make sure that we’re talking about it in a healthy way.

Sandy Zamalis: 31:20
So just having those conversations really is the place to start with our kids. We’ve got to have those money conversations.

Lindsey Konchar: 31:28
Yeah, yeah. And you know what, if you are listening to this and you’re like, wow, I do not feel confident enough to talk to my kids about money, be transparent with kids. Kids love vulnerability and, of course, there’s a line that we don’t need to cross, you don’t need to say, well, I’m an $80,000 worth of debt, whatever. That is Right, but saying like you know, I never understood finances. It was just never something that was taught to me in school. My parents didn’t really talk to me about it and we’re not blaming anybody while we’re telling them this, but we’re just being open and we’re saying like but now I really want to learn about it. Do you want to come along and like, learn some of this stuff with me? And they’re going to be like yes, immediately. Yes, like they, they’re curious, they love it. Yes, immediately. Yes, they’re curious, they love it, and kids know. Kids know that money makes the world go round more so, maybe even than adults really realize, and they are genuinely curious, and so, if you can have some of those conversations, some things are going to change.

Lindsey Konchar: 32:25
When we retired my husband out of corporate America in September and we had a family meeting about it my kids again are really young, but we want them to know that their voice is heard and important.

Lindsey Konchar: 32:39
And we just said, look, if daddy leaves his job, that means we’re going to pull back on going to restaurants, we’re not going to be doing as many family outings, stuff like that, but it also means that daddy’s going to be home a lot more with you and you’ll actually get to see your daddy, which for a long time wasn’t the case, you know. And my daughter was like, yay, daddy, like she was so excited. But we wanted to hear how they felt about the decision and make them, you know, involved in that. And they were totally fine to not go to restaurants as frequently Like it, just you know, involved in that. And they were totally fine to not go to restaurants as frequently Like it, just you know. But I think again, even if you are not somebody who’s able to save in a 529 plan for your kids, that’s okay. The bigger thing to do is educate your kids around what money can do for them and help them along that journey, and they will still like be again light years ahead.

Sandy Zamalis: 33:30
Yeah, so let’s talk about allowances. What are your feedback or tips for parents about allowances? What should they consider?

Lindsey Konchar: 33:41
I love allowances, big advocate of them, and here’s why, again, it just gets the conversation going. What I will say is, if you are going to commit to doing allowance with your kids, commit to it right. Have it be a consistent thing that you’re really good about, you know doing easily. So for us, we were initially going to wait until my daughter was five, but she was just really interested in it she’s really responsible and we were like you know, you’re ready. And I talked to her beforehand and I asked her said do you want to start learning about money and about money and some of the things mommy does for my job and whatever? And she’s like, yeah, I want money. I was like, okay, great. And so we got her a little container with four little buckets in it and we labeled them together invest, save, give and spend. And because she’s four years old, she gets $4 a week.

Lindsey Konchar: 34:38
So ahead of time I went to the bank. I got $200 worth of ones, because she’s also at the stage where you know ones are way more important, like four ones are way, or five ones are way better than a $5 bill. And then we got a money box off of Facebook marketplace. It was like two bucks and we did it all together where I was like, okay, this is the money, this is where it’s going to come from, and so we had it all situated to make it really easy to be consistent doing this. And every Wednesday we just have it stack that kind of into our morning routine and we attach it to chores.

Lindsey Konchar: 35:08
You can, you cannot, it really does not matter. There’s really strong opinions about that. Honestly, I’m like, do your thing. You know your kids. If it feels good for you, do it. If it doesn’t feel good for you, don’t. Who cares? That’s not the point. The point is to talk about money and how we’re allocating it and prioritizing some of those things. So for us, we gave her $4 bills and the expectation is that $1 goes in each bucket. When she turns five, she’ll get an extra dollar and she gets to decide where that dollar goes. And she does have a 529 plan and she’s investing in that and anytime she puts money in the bank, mommy matches her 100% and so if she wants to put more money in investments, she gets more money in investments, because I’m matching it right. And then savings we’ve talked about what savings might and you can lean in and play on what your kids are super into.

Lindsey Konchar: 35:59
Right now my daughter is obsessed with Paris. So we’re like, yeah, girl, we’re saving for Paris, let’s go see the Eiffel Tower, and that I’m sure will change. But right now it’s like fun to have that conversation. And then I really encourage her to spend. And when we go and we spend that money, it’s not like a hey, let’s go to the store, mommy has to grab a couple of things. You can buy something while we’re there. It’s a we’re going to go to the store and this is for Kinsley, like I am not there getting my own stuff. It’s like an event for her to take time and look at the toys and decide what she wants, and then you know, come home and then I can go back and do my grocery shopping later. But that’s, it’s really intentional time for her to learn and ask questions and whatnot.

Sandy Zamalis: 36:40
Oh, I love that. I love that idea of making it all about the experience of going shopping. Yeah, getting the thing that you think in your mind that that’s what you’re going to purchase, and then having to go through that process and you’re not rushed because you’re trying to get through your list as well, that’s really really smart.

Lindsey Konchar: 36:59
Yeah.

Sandy Zamalis: 37:01
I love that. What about? Let’s talk about teens? What about credit cards for teens? What’s your stance?

Lindsey Konchar: 37:08
So one of like a hack that a lot of people don’t really know is if you are using credit cards I hate to use the word responsibly because it feels icky to be like well, some people are not responsible. But if you are using credit cards I hate to use the word responsibly because it feels icky to be like well, some people are not responsible. But if you are paying your credit cards off in full and on time every single month and you have really good credit, if you add your teenager as an authorized user on that card, you’re actually helping them build credit earlier on, which is really nice. So then there’s a whole rabbit hole. We can get down with credit scores that we won’t. But the nice thing about credit scores is, obviously, if you are looking to take out a loan whether that’s a mortgage, student loans, whatever if you have a high credit score, the interest rate is actually better for you, and so if you can help them by building that credit score up and getting their credit higher earlier on, then by all means do it Now. I’ve heard of all sorts of different ways people like to do this, whether they get their teen a credit card and they’re like this is your limit. This is your responsibility.

Lindsey Konchar: 38:14
And, of course, there are the teens that are a little. You know. They have a spending, I don’t know explosion, and they really go at it and the parents are really good about them saying like, okay, you’ve now lost the responsibility to that card and in fact, you owe us with interest on that money and setting up a payment plan with their kid. And again, like, is that fun to do? No, Is it a fantastic learning lesson early on? Yes, and so I think there’s some of that. But if, like, your teen has a job, ooh, I love it. Like, open up that custodial Roth IRA with them. Talk about investing with them that custodial Roth IRA with them. Talk about investing with them. Talk about what it means to be, what they might be saving for in a high-yield savings account. There’s so much to get into with teens I love.

Sandy Zamalis: 39:05
oh my gosh, what a fun age, yes, but you want to give them opportunities to work with money within your guidance and your sphere. I know, growing up I didn’t really understand credit cards until I was well into my 20s and they were throwing credit card applications at us at college. I don’t know, we’d go to the bookstore and free money and I knew it wasn’t free money but I had friends that didn’t and got into trouble and they had to find out the hard way later. But having that opportunity to do that at home and to give some guidance and to help them think ahead, especially in those early ages where their prefrontal cortexes need a little extra support, A little extra support.

Sandy Zamalis: 39:52
Yes, totally. They got to be able to think that through.

Lindsey Konchar: 39:54
Uh-huh, yes, yes. And what I think is really interesting is I don’t know if this was true for you, but certainly for me I heard the message like don’t go into credit card debt. Like only spend what you have. But that is where the message stopped. There was never an explanation further Like this is why this is what interest means. This is what it does. This is how it works. There was not that extra added layer of like why it was just like a don’t do this thing.

Lindsey Konchar: 40:25
So for parents out there of teens, I would say that is one thing that can be, even again, super beneficial for them to like explain what the thing is, but then explain why the thing exists and why we’re actually telling them about this in a way that they’ll understand, and there’s some really good resources out there now for teens. But, again, like they really truly want to learn about this stuff. There’s like such this myth that people are like even if I had personal finance in high school, you know I wouldn’t have done anything with it, I wouldn’t have cared, and I’m like what a load of crap we would have learned, we would have loved it. It’s fine.

Sandy Zamalis: 41:03
I don’t really ever remember like how to do the checkbook. That’s all I really ever learned in school.

Lindsey Konchar: 41:09
Truly, yes, they never taught us anything.

Sandy Zamalis: 41:13
And I’m like, come on, I think in eighth grade, we had a lesson where we had to, like furnish a home or something, and they gave us fake money and then we had to, like you know, try to figure out how much things cost. And then I remember that experience talking about, you know, those childhood experiences. Now I was older, obviously, but I remember that vividly because my mom was like, well, you can’t, you’d never be able to live on this much money. And so in my head I was like, wow, you need a lot of money to survive. And so there was a little bit of stress, I think, associated with it, because, you know, mattresses are expensive. I was blown away by the cost of a mattress. So that was a really good opportunity, though that’s fun, yeah, and you know what.

Lindsey Konchar: 42:01
A lot of times I’ll tell parents too. If you are taking family vacations, whether that’s annually or whatever, like I encourage you, first of all, you need to know your numbers first, right? So if we what is that? Like practice oxygen mask? You know finance, where it’s like you need to take care of yourself first and then help your kids. So you need to understand your numbers.

Lindsey Konchar: 42:22
But if you’re going on a family vacation and you’re like, yeah, we have $5,000 that we’re planning on spending, talk to your include them Like as young as eight years old, you can be like we’re going to go to these are like three places that we’re considering. Let’s build this out a little bit. What are the flights to get there, what is the hotel looking like, what are the excursions that we want to take the food right and plan it out with them? So, a little bit, and I think, giving that some of that autonomy to say like, what does this look like? What are the scenarios? Like that’s super fun. And then they also have a stake in it where they’re going to enjoy that vacation so much more because they helped plan it.

Lindsey Konchar: 43:01
Like the fun part about vacations is it’s like a triple fold excitement, right when you get to like plan the thing which is super exciting and fun. You get to go on the thing which is super exciting and fun, and then you get to come home and have memories about the thing that was super exciting and fun, so super exciting and fun. And then you get to come home and have memories about the thing that was super exciting and fun, so like it’s so fun. So like let your kids be a part of all three stages of that.

Sandy Zamalis: 43:22
And you know if you’re planning through it, then there’s no remorse, right? There’s no buyer’s remorse at the end, Right, you can just enjoy. You can just enjoy. What’s your advice for 529 plans, college savings plans? You’ve kind of talked about them a little bit. Let’s dig into that a little bit.

Lindsey Konchar: 43:39
I love a 529 plan, particularly because of the new law that was passed in early 2024. That now says if you fund that and you have $35,000 in that account and you don’t use it for educational expenses, now you are actually able to roll that money into a Roth IRA, which is a really great post-tax investment account. And so a lot of people I know were worried like what if my kid doesn’t go to college? And now they have to take the penalty and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That really has mitigated some of that and so it becomes a really, really great account to help your kids financially for a very long time. So that’s number one. And also, even if you end up having to pay the 10% penalty or whatever, so much of that is in the compounding interest and at least you’re doing something for your kids. I just think it’s so great. So I love a 529 personally, I actually just put out an episode on my own podcast on financial self-care about this specifically.

Lindsey Konchar: 44:44
So if people want to learn, it’s called Building Generational Wealth and I talked to a woman specifically about all the different. There’s like four different investment accounts that you can consider for kids. Both of us were, you know. We agreed that the 529 is our favorite. There is also a custodial Roth IRA, which I mentioned a little bit about.

Lindsey Konchar: 45:03
If you have teenagers and they’re working at W-2. You can also hire your kids in your business. That gets a little convoluted, but it’s possible which is a really beautiful account again to set them up for later and then you could just have a brokerage account in your own name if you’re not so trustworthy of what your kid is going to do at 18 years old. But that’s a really great way to maybe help them out with a down payment or a wedding or I don’t know. Yay, you got an amazing job, let’s go take a vacation and celebrate. I don’t know whatever it is for you, but that one’s under your control. So if that feels a little bit better, that’s great. But it’s just a regular taxable brokerage account. So there’s a lot of really good investing options for kids, and kids got time and we love time when we’re talking about investing, so that is huge.

Sandy Zamalis: 45:51
I love. In one of your posts you talked about how you had closed your kids’ savings and checking accounts, because your kids are young, they’re little and just are focusing on that 529 as the option, which I thought was super smart, because your point in your post was that you know it’s not, it’s not working for them, meaning the money’s not actually doing work for them sitting in that checking and savings account.

Lindsey Konchar: 46:23
Yeah, and we, as I said in that post too, we are very privileged that we have family members who live all around the country, and so my kids will get 20 bucks for Valentine’s Day and 50 bucks for Christmas or whatever. And so we started. Really, I mean, by the time my daughter was quite young, she had like $500 sitting in that savings account that, to your point, was not working for her. Like there was, it was like 0.01% savings yield or something, which is just really pathetic. And so, and I really thought again, I want my kids to be involved in so much of this, like why would I?

Lindsey Konchar: 46:53
Which? I did this, but I went to the bank, I opened the accounts all for them and I’m like, well, doing things for my kids is really not teaching them anything, so I’m going to close these all out, put that money in an account like a 529 that is working way harder for her, and then, when, at an appropriate age where she can actually, you know, both of them can understand this is a bank, this is how we do some of this, and that you can open your own account when she’s you know, again, eight, nine, ten, whatever. It’s just going to help her start understanding this more rather than me doing it for her. She’s really doing it and I’m there as her support person.

Sandy Zamalis: 47:31
Do you, do you work with your family? Like I want you know we talked about you know money, kind of being that traumatic thing that we’ve learned early on in that relationship, and as someone who really loves to talk about financial awareness and help other families, how has that gone in your own family dynamic in terms of like your mom and dad, or brothers and sisters?

Lindsey Konchar: 47:56
I am an open door when it comes to it and I am never going to pressure any of them to like you know, this is the thing you should do. But it was very sweet. The other day my brother called and was like he’s you know, getting a new job or whatever, or no, it was a benefits thing, that it was benefits renewal. And he was like so I’m wondering about you know this, and should I do that? Because this, like best kept secret is the HSA.

Lindsey Konchar: 48:21
If you have access to an HSA which only about 10% of Americans do but if you do have that high deductible plan, you can actually fund that, invest those funds and then turn in all your receipts when you’re 60 years old and get reimbursed for everything.

Lindsey Konchar: 48:37
And so if you can pay for stuff out of pocket and be investing in that HSA, it is a triple tax-advantaged account, so it’s not tax going in, it grows tax-free and you take it out tax-free so long as it’s used for those medical expenses. So it’s like a really nice account and so it was very sweet. My brother called and asked me about some of that and to educate him a little bit about how it works and the systems that we have in place in our family, but it’s certainly not something I’m ever going to call him up and be like hey, do you know about an HSA? But yeah, no, they consume my content, they listen to my podcast, and so if they have questions I’m certainly happy to answer. But yeah, I’m not going to be like, oh, this is what you need to know here. So, yeah, that’s kind of how it works for us.

Sandy Zamalis: 49:21
I only ask. I know in my family we just never talked about money, so I don’t think that we still we still don’t talk about money.

Lindsey Konchar: 49:31
Not happening. Yeah, it’s definitely opened some doors, I would say, and and really good conversation of you know lots of things Like I. You know we have a really strict rule and just my husband and I that like we are never going to borrow a family member or a friend money. We just simply won’t it just it creates too many conflicts and this weird power dynamic that we’re not interested in. So if at any point, a family member or friend comes to us and says like look, I’m really struggling, I need some money, we would be open to the conversation, we would look at our financial picture and see if there’s anything to give and we would consider giving money to somebody.

Lindsey Konchar: 50:12
But that is truly, it is a gift. It is not like okay, but you’re going to pay us back and with interest and whatever, and so that’s been kind of an interesting concept and things that I think some people, you know, haven’t really thought of. So just having some of those money, rules and your partnership and even among family, like I’m very I mean my whole content and everything is about all this stuff. So I guess if my family doesn’t want to come to me directly, they can get the information through some of my emails or my podcast or the social media stuff. But no, yeah, it’s been a really good way to kind of spark some of that.

Sandy Zamalis: 50:47
What are some resources that you recommend for women, men, couples, to help them really kind of make that mindset shift about their finances?

Lindsey Konchar: 51:01
Yeah, my very favorite. I mean, again, I have all so many resources. So please, if this stuff resonates with you, please come follow along. I welcome it.

Lindsey Konchar: 51:11
But the number one book that I really, really love to recommend to anybody in my I even had my husband listen to it because I was like it is, it’s really powerful is called your Money or your Life, and it’s by Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez and it is really a good conversation of like what are you putting your life’s energy towards and how is your money kind of funding some of that life’s energy towards and how is your money kind of funding some of that.

Lindsey Konchar: 51:39
And I really just like that framework of how they’re, how they talk about money and how they reframe some of these things that are like like, for example, one of the things they talk about in there is is your job so stressful that you’re coming home and you’re having, you know you’re cracking a beer and you’re planning vacations because you need to escape your life or whatever? And like, how much of your money is really going to like coping with the stress of your life really, and is there a way to like change that and be more mindful around some of those things, and when I had my husband listen to that, that was really one of the conversations that was really healthy. Had my husband listen to that, that was really one of the conversations that was really healthy between us, between, like, hey, you are in corporate America, you are gone for 10 to 12 hours a day at your job and, yeah, you’re providing for our family, which is huge, and also a lot of your life’s energy is getting sucked into something that’s not even yours, you know, like so so we really started shaping our lives a little bit differently and thinking about money a little bit differently, and so that would be like top resource. I listened to it on Audible and I just loved it.

Sandy Zamalis: 52:47
So when can our listeners find you? What resources do you have available for them?

Lindsey Konchar: 52:55
Yeah, so I am financial therapist Lindsey on Instagram. That is the only social media that I really am active on, so come on over there and find me. My, my podcast is financial self-care with financial therapist Lindsey, and so you can listen to all sorts of episodes over there. The Enneagram one has been like really taking off. People are liking that one a lot, so I start there. The Enneagram one has been like really taking off. People are liking that one a lot, so I start there. It’s super fun.

Lindsey Konchar: 53:21
And then my blog is financialselfcareblogcom, and that’s where I have an entire financial therapy page. So if you’re interested in learning more about like the one-to-one services that I offer, by all means come there. But I’m a solopreneur. It’s me always answering you, so if you email me, it’s me responding. If you DM me on Instagram, it’s me responding, and I just I love to talk about this stuff. So if you have questions or comments or you listen to this episode, you just want to tell me about it, please do. I love it, um, and that’s where you can find me.

Sandy Zamalis: 54:01
I love your uh content because you’re just so down to earth. There’s nothing that would make someone feel like they’re in a space where you know they would feel intimidated to talk about finances. I love how authentic you are online, so thank you for sharing all of your content. Yeah, it’s been wonderful. I had fun doing my research to talk to you today. All of your content.

Lindsey Konchar: 54:18
Yeah, it’s been wonderful. I had fun doing my research. To talk to you today, oh good, oh, that makes me feel so good. Like, isn’t this a weird space that we’re in where I’m like I’m creating this content? I don’t know, is it hitting? Do people like it? The podcast especially? You’re like I don’t know, I’m just gonna put it out there and hope so. Like, if somebody comes in it’s like oh, I really liked this. I’m like, oh, yay, oh, I’m not just talking to the abyss.

Sandy Zamalis: 54:35
Amazing. I know, I know, I totally get that. Thank you so much, Lindsey, for joining us. We want to be mindful of your time, so we are running out of time in our conversation and we need to wrap up, but this has been a fantastic conversation. We want to thank our guest today, Lindsey Konchar, for sharing her knowledge and experience with our listeners. Lindsey, thank you so much. Is there anything you want to leave our listeners with today that maybe we didn’t get to hit?

Lindsey Konchar: 55:04
You know, the only thing that I would say is, if you, no matter where you are on your financial journey and you see kind of a bigger thing for you, whether that’s getting out of debt or investing a little bit more aggressively or anything in between, take 2025 and make this year just like a little harder for you, 5% harder, 10% harder and be more intentional with your money. And I’m talking about the, you know, avoiding the one click to buy option on a certain platform, that just Jeff Bezos click-to-buy option on a certain platform that just Jeff Bezos, you know, owns Whatever it looks like for you, but do the thing that’s going to make it just a little harder to make the next 20, 30, 40 years of your life that much better and richer. And I really think there’s so much power in that and, just again, there’s so much hope in this. So that’s what I’ll say.

Sandy Zamalis: 55:56
That’s it. That’s a great tip. That’s a great tip to end on. Okay, moms, thank you so much for listening today. If you like us, please follow us on Instagram and Facebook at the Brainy Moms. Do it now, before you forget If you liked our show. We would love it if you would leave us a five-star rating review on Apple Podcasts so that we can reach more parents like you. If you would rather watch us, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at the Brainy Moms, and if you want to learn more about our sponsor, learningrx and Cognitive Training, you can find me on TikTok at TheBrainTrainerLady. That’s all the smart stuff we have for you today. We hope you feel a little smarter. So see you next time on the Brainy Moms podcast.